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Ramifications of absorbing fractured League systems?

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Re: Ramifications of absorbing fractured League systems?
Post by ldwechsler   » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:07 am

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Brigade XO wrote:Visagoth is an RF member. The Houdini plan was intended to remove (not butcher or expunge) all of the Alignment resources from Mesa before sinking the planet into chaos.
The final flourish of nuclear weapons that Albrect triggered would seem to have been part of the later plan for Mesa after getting the Alignment clear so as to very much muddy the waters about what had gone on.
We were told that Mesa with Manpower and many of the related companies was going to be used as a cover and misdirection, ultimately being sacrificed. It is possible that the last round of explosions was supposed to look like a selfie and genetic slave revolt which decapitated Mesa's leadership and took out much of it's ability to control anything and so leading to a bloodbath designed to be a civil war/revolution and essentialy killing off much of the population through the internal fighting and massive problems that the distruction would have had on the planets infrastructure.
Visagoth is still in control of it's end of the wormhole. It also has been a trade hub although it is not clear how it has rationalized it's connections with Mesa other than it can't control what the system on the other end of the wormhole has been doing. Even with Mesa in turmoil and SEM with a fleet holding the Mesa system, we don't know what the rest (the non-Mesa bound) traffic of that wormhole has been like. There probably has been a lot of traffic which only uses the wormhole and never gets close to the hyper-limit of Mesa. Same for the Visagoth end.
Ships come through to use the wormhole. They pay their transit fees, they deliver and receive cargo from the warehouses near the termini and just go on. How many would be searched by customs on either end if they are not going (nor publish intentions about going to Mesa) before the new crisis there? Visagoth is NOT caught up in what is going on at Mesa except as they will have to deal with shipping and now probably warships near the wormhole on their end. They can deal openly with SEM in reguard to what has happened and just move forward. It is not like Mike or the SEM is going to send ships into the Visagoth system hunting Mesa officials. They don't have to, any diplomatic staff or business people from Mesa on Visagoth will be looking for asylum if not for a fast ship away and Visagoth doesn't have to really do much beyond protest SEM's actions and not hand over any Mesa citizens that don't want to go back for fear of being entangled in Manpower and the whole genetic slavery issue.


Mesa is not really going to be an issue. It will simply be a mess. Lots of nukes will do this.

The Malign probably plans to keep its head down for a while. Let the League tear itself apart. Visigoth can basically be nice to the SEM but if it doesn't show support for joining, it can simply be "friendly."

That would be a good way to insert more agents into Manticore, Haven, etc.

When Step One of your plan lasts 500 years, Step Two will probably also be slow. Do more work on genetics. Publicly push the envelope somewhat more than Manticore or Beowulf wants. Not (publicly) enough to cause major problems. Focus on 'genetic defects' causing retardation...which seems legal but increase intelligence levels in general.

On some planets, use real manipulation as a form of bribery. Hey, your kids will be smarter, stronger, etc. Gradually bring in more planets, the further away from major centers the better.
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Re: Ramifications of absorbing fractured League systems?
Post by cthia   » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:37 pm

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I still think the SEM should get in on the ground floor, while the conditions are conducive.

The ramifications of not getting a strategic foothold in the "New and Emerging Frontier" may assert itself in the future.

What are the possibilities that the Anderman Empire could begin to absorb fractured systems? They already have some 21 star systems in their inventory. (It is rather difficult for me to break associating the Anderman Empire with that evil Star Wars Empire. (I know. I know. My own baggage.)

I've been ferrying around for data regarding the Anderman Empire's overall financial condition. Who exactly does the Empire trade with? Or rather, do they trade extensively with Manticore and Haven? Do they use the MWJ extensively? Simply more background info I'm unfamiliar with.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Ramifications of absorbing fractured League systems?
Post by Theemile   » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:32 pm

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cthia wrote:I still think the SEM should get in on the ground floor, while the conditions are conducive.

The ramifications of not getting a strategic foothold in the "New and Emerging Frontier" may assert itself in the future.

What are the possibilities that the Anderman Empire could begin to absorb fractured systems? They already have some 21 star systems in their inventory. (It is rather difficult for me to break associating the Anderman Empire with that evil Star Wars Empire. (I know. I know. My own baggage.)

I've been ferrying around for data regarding the Anderman Empire's overall financial condition. Who exactly does the Empire trade with? Or rather, do they trade extensively with Manticore and Haven? Do they use the MWJ extensively? Simply more background info I'm unfamiliar with.

Manticore, Silesia, and the Asgerd are the primary trading partners of the Andermani. Unfortunately, they are far enough out that they do not really come into direct connection with the league, nor do they have a wormhole (that we know of) that directly links them to the league (but they have access via the Asgerd and Manticorian junctions). While they may grab a verge system or two near them, they do not have a logical extension into the League to build a node of systems around.

In the SITS Errata, it is mentioned that the Andermani USUALLY spend multiple years absorbing a system into the empire and planning it's next conquest (most of whom have seemed willing "victims" of the Andermani, having become better off than before their conquest.) While they certainly could see a unique opportunity and exploit it, chances are the Empire will focus on the internal needs of it's new conquests in Silesia (~34 planets) for at least the next decade or so before looking for serious growth again.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Ramifications of absorbing fractured League systems?
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:18 am

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Hi cthia,

The textev regarding the number of the pre-Sileesian annexation Andermanni star systems is confusing given the difference between the 21 you cited from the honor-wiki or wherever and the 39 I generally use.

My figure simply comes from all the early textev that repeatedly referenced the fact the Andermanni averaged adding a new star system every decade since the empire was founded with 7 star systems in ~1607.

Trade-wise, the AE is the largest single multi star system trade pardner the SKM/SEM has or had until Haven obviously changed that less than 5 monthes ago.

Despite centuries of being such major trade pardners, its surprising there is still so much ignorance concerning the Andermanni and so little social contact, NTM intermarrying and general friendships etc as there is with Beowulf, the SKM/SEM's largest single star system trading pardner, granted location is so critical in the latter case.

I expect the AE to add many if not most of the SL members and protectorates nearest their nearest common border areas, those that aren't taken in the first rush will no doubt join in time as the empire consolidates its control and begins to get hungry again.

If Mike's words to Prime Minister Montrose accurately reflect the SKM/SEM's public attitude toward more annexations, there won't be any for decades.

Which may complicate the next story arc, but its RFC's, isn't it.

On another point, I've suggested for over a decade that Eloise may sacrifice herself to save Elizabeth during an assassination attempt, I'm now wondering if it'll be reversed, Elizabeth for Eloise.

Your thoughts and analysis are desired, albeit perhaps not in this thread. ;)

L


cthia wrote:I still think the SEM should get in on the ground floor, while the conditions are conducive.

The ramifications of not getting a strategic foothold in the "New and Emerging Frontier" may assert itself in the future.

What are the possibilities that the Anderman Empire could begin to absorb fractured systems? They already have some 21 star systems in their inventory. (It is rather difficult for me to break associating the Anderman Empire with that evil Star Wars Empire. (I know. I know. My own baggage.)

I've been ferrying around for data regarding the Anderman Empire's overall financial condition. Who exactly does the Empire trade with? Or rather, do they trade extensively with Manticore and Haven? Do they use the MWJ extensively? Simply more background info I'm unfamiliar with.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Ramifications of absorbing fractured League systems?
Post by kzt   » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:33 am

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Gregor didn't become part of the AE until shortly before the events of OBS iirc. So until then there wasn't the direct connection. And if the AE took them over they probably weren't in great shape and probably didn't have great relations to the SKM.
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Re: Ramifications of absorbing fractured League systems?
Post by George J. Smith   » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:22 am

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lyonheart wrote:
Snip

On another point, I've suggested for over a decade that Eloise may sacrifice herself to save Elizabeth during an assassination attempt, I'm now wondering if it'll be reversed, Elizabeth for Eloise.

Snip



There was a speculation by another poster in another thread about Rivka becoming the rock that Roger depended upon during his reign, which was speculated to be not that far into the next arc of the story.

Your thoughts about Elizabeth sacrificing herself to save Eloise would dovetail into that quite nicely, otherwise it would be a long prolong time before Elizabeth died of natural causes and Roger assumed the throne.
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: Ramifications of absorbing fractured League systems?
Post by cthia   » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:30 am

cthia
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George J. Smith wrote:
lyonheart wrote:
Snip

On another point, I've suggested for over a decade that Eloise may sacrifice herself to save Elizabeth during an assassination attempt, I'm now wondering if it'll be reversed, Elizabeth for Eloise.

Snip



There was a speculation by another poster in another thread about Rivka becoming the rock that Roger depended upon during his reign, which was speculated to be not that far into the next arc of the story.

Your thoughts about Elizabeth sacrificing herself to save Eloise would dovetail into that quite nicely, otherwise it would be a long prolong time before Elizabeth died of natural causes and Roger assumed the throne.

Elizabeth sacrificing herself for Eloise would also fit the old adage "One good turn deserves another." In light of Eloise going to bat for Elizabeth when she dropped everything and entered Manticoran space w/o permission of either government, hers or Beth's.

lyonheart, I'd like to know why you feel that way. It's a wonderful storyline for certain, regardless of who the lamb is. Though I wouldn't want it to be either if they actually succeed beyond the actual attempt, I think it is imperative that Eloise lives. I'm not so certain I have much faith in the alliance without Eloise.

Also, the logistics of the possibility is daunting. The treecats have pledged to assist in that area and Ariel will always be with Beth. And if there is an assassination attempt it most certainly would be of MAlign design. If Beth or Eloise is successful at sacrificing herself, then it seems that the treecat(s) (if Eloise has been assigned a cat) in question may have slipped somehow and was ineffective in their pledge to assist with future assassination attempts which wouldn't be nice for RFC to pen. And the MAlign assassination attempts are usually single controlled minds, not several people. Which seems to eliminate the "excuse" of a busy treecat on other fronts.

At any rate, success would put a damper on the treecat pledge to assist. And if it's Beth we most probably would lose Ariel as well.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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