Ramifications of absorbing fractured League systems?

...and Silesian.

Ramifications of absorbing fractured systems

If the League begins to fracture and the RMN absorbs certain systems, what will that do to Manticore's economy at this point when capital is tight as a witch's wormhole -- with the implementation of Lacoon? Can Manticore even afford it right now?

These systems may need financial help and resources to get on their feet in the short term after leaving the League. They will definitely need military resources allocated to them as protection.

What effect will it have on the strategic implications of the vast distances between Manticoran spheres of responsibility, and the need to protect its allies way out in the Verge and Silesia? Especially when the MAN reemerges onto the scene with help from yet another navy. Would the GA realistically be spreading itself thin? And what does this say about any Manticoran expansionistic views?

There will be a need to set up basing rights somewhere. Depending on what Manricore absorbs of course, what systems would be the best strategic location for the RMN to aet up housekeeping? Talk about the Basilisk System becoming the punishment post. Try being sent out in the boondocks. Will Silesia and the Verge become the new punishment post just as Basilisk Station once was?

That will be Abigail's maiden voyage as CO. Having to whip her crew into conformance because of their resentment of her, after being banished to one of the new punishment posts after her showing in the War Games because her ship was gutted and raped and used as another test bed.

Will Manticore and Haven both absorb fractured systems? We only seem to discuss Manticore absorbing systems, but the Havenites are in more of a need. If Manticore absorbs the systems alone, and at some point in the future war breaks out again with the leopards whose spots reappear, then that will leave the RMN spread awfully thin. After the League crumbles then Haven will begin looking at its own economic reality again. And if Manticore absorbs the lion's share of the fractured systems, the green-eyed monster may begin to rear its ugly head in Havenite politics resenting the Manties, again.

If the RMN and the RHN go back to war against each other sometime in the future, "drive-bys" against acquired Verge and Silesian systems will be interesting.

And is the RMN destined to become the new 800# Gorilla?

cthia wrote:...and Silesian.

Ramifications of absorbing fractured systems

If the League begins to fracture and the RMN absorbs certain systems, what will that do to Manticore's economy at this point when capital is tight as a witch's wormhole -- with the implementation of Lacoon? Can Manticore even afford it right now?

These systems may need financial help and resources to get on their feet in the short term after leaving the League. They will definitely need military resources allocated to them as protection.

What effect will it have on the strategic implications of the vast distances between Manticoran spheres of responsibility, and the need to protect its allies way out in the Verge and Silesia? Especially when the MAN reemerges onto the scene with help from yet another navy. Would the GA realistically be spreading itself thin? And what does this say about any Manticoran expansionistic views?

There will be a need to set up basing rights somewhere. Depending on what Manricore absorbs of course, what systems would be the best strategic location for the RMN to aet up housekeeping? Talk about the Basilisk System becoming the punishment post. Try being sent out in the boondocks. Will Silesia and the Verge become the new punishment post just as Basilisk Station once was?

That will be Abigail's maiden voyage as CO. Having to whip her crew into conformance because of their resentment of her, after being banished to one of the new punishment posts after her showing in the War Games because her ship was gutted and raped and used as another test bed.

Will Manticore and Haven both absorb fractured systems? We only seem to discuss Manticore absorbing systems, but the Havenites are in more of a need. If Manticore absorbs the systems alone, and at some point in the future war breaks out again with the leopards whose spots reappear, then that will leave the RMN spread awfully thin. After the League crumbles then Haven will begin looking at its own economic reality again. And if Manticore absorbs the lion's share of the fractured systems, the green-eyed monster may begin to rear its ugly head in Havenite politics resenting the Manties, again.

If the RMN and the RHN go back to war against each other sometime in the future, "drive-bys" against acquired Verge and Silesian systems will be interesting.

And is the RMN destined to become the new 800# Gorilla?

There is no reason to believe that either Manticore or Haven will take on extra planets. It would be simpler to work on protection deals and leave it at that.

And why should that become a punishment area? Frankly, that area would probably be the only action area for a while. Since the GA is at peace, the best leaders would be sent to the action.

And I would doubt Abigail would be sent on a punishment ship that easily. Yes, it is a replay of Honor but HH was sort of a nothing at the time. What happened at Basilisk helped make her a star.

Abigail has connections galore. She has been carefully handled all through her career as we have seen. Chances are, she will wind up with a first command as part of task force. Much easier to learn the job there.

Manticore has quite enough on it's plate already to even consider taking any more systems into the Empire. Haven has just gotten through part of divesiting itself of some systems aquired in the People's Republic and Legislaratiat eras and doesn't need any more of the same kinds of problems.

The Harrington Plan is to work out treaty and trade agreements but not step into nor absorb any new systems. Mutual Defence Treaties may be part of that but not inclusion in the SEM.

For the most part, many of the systems can probably do just fine once they have shed the stranglehold of OFS and it's Transtellar partners or local tyrants which have ultimatly relied on OFS/FF to blast thier oppositon if it comes down to a fight. Without OFS and the transtellars sniffing into any potentially profitable situation, most will develope some sort of normal trade and economic situations. Manticore and Haven may have to go back to providing anti-piracy or anti-warlordism patrols to keep problems trimmed back. That would flow with the afore-mentioned trade agreements. Manticore (and Haven) would probably work out good terms for resupply and port-of-call agreements for their warships in addition to the trade agreements but that just helps defray the costs of providing anti-piracy and commerce protection work.

Neither Manticore nor Haven want to place more than ambasadors or local cosular/trade office missions in systems outside the existing Empire or Republic. They want agreements in cooperation, not dictating terms. Manticore has plenty of that from earlier dealings with OFS and the SL in the Verge and elsewhere and the solutions have been (or so it appears) more like the situation on Zunker or Idaho where SME leverages against the systems absorption into OFS etc by negotiations from strength to give the local system the rights it should have and most of the money they should get from things like wormhole termini or free trade. That free trade ends up with life being very dangerous for pirates or similar things (like OFS/FF picking off merchant shipping to crush the planitary ecomomies and get "requested" to come in and set up a Protectorate to make the system safe again) because RMN turns up at odd times and sweeps up/eliminated the problems with merchat raiders.

There's no way they would even consider annexation, and the way I see it, it's because of one simple thing; a growing sense of nationalism. I have no doubt that inhabitants of planets that had been pillaged by the League are more than likely sick of anything that even so much as resembles outside interference, and if they believe that another foreign power is trying to sink it's hooks into them then the gloves will come off. They may set up trade relations or cut some sort of deal, but those people aren't going to want to trade one occupation force for another, and book 14 pretty much sums up how the Manties would feel about it near the end with Henke talking to that Prime Minister from Meyers. Also, as Kingsford put it near the end of book 13, the ability to control territory is limited by available manpower and material; where the hell is Manticore, even with the rest of the GA helping them, going to get the ships and the soldiers to police that much SPACE, never mind the planets themselves. There may even be radicals who will demand militant isolationist policies for their newly freed systems, and will no doubt launch guerilla wars against either their "oppressors" and possibly the legitimate government whom they see as giving in to foreign influences (similar to how their previous Solarian-sponsored overlords acted). That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw systems coming together sort of like with the Rembrandt Trade Union, although I could be wrong. However, this is ultimately just my opinion on the subject.

Rednek731 wrote:That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw systems coming together sort of like with the Rembrandt Trade Union, although I could be wrong. However, this is ultimately just my opinion on the subject.

Like some sort of Renaissance?

kzt wrote:

Rednek731 wrote:That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw systems coming together sort of like with the Rembrandt Trade Union, although I could be wrong. However, this is ultimately just my opinion on the subject.

Like some sort of Renaissance?

Sure, if that's what you call it. I'm not an expert on the subject of trade organizations so I'll just assume anyone else is more correct than I am until proven otherwise.

Hi Rednek731,

Welcome to the forum and enjoy your favorite simulated drink on the simulated forum.

You're spot on in that there will be all sorts of reactions to the coming chaos, humans being human after all.

Mike explained to Prime Minister Montague that the SEM had absolutely no interest in adding or annexing more star systems, because the TQ headaches had only begun and even with the best of will on all sides, there were still going to be huge headaches.

Simple bilateral treaties will be ever so much easier.

The SEM might encourage ex-RTU people to help organize similar groups, but since the RTU was a reaction to protect its members from OFS aggression, the need will soon no longer exist.

Regarding the ships and the crews to man them to accomplish all this, Beowulf has 9 billion people or half again the SKM's tech skilled population [plus San Martin] before the TQ added another 40 billion, and its tech is every bit as good as the SEM's.

I'm curious how quickly Beowulf will produce not just missiles, but LAC's and flight 2 Roland's, with room besides the flag accommodations I've mentioned previously, for at least a platoon of marines, now that Abigail has demonstrated her tactical brilliance again.

I'm curious what happens when MAlign leaders of the RF meet the GA's with their treecats, Visogoth, Mannerheim etc.

Definitely interesting times.

L

Rednek731 wrote:

kzt wrote:quote="Rednek731"That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw systems coming together sort of like with the Rembrandt Trade Union, although I could be wrong. However, this is ultimately just my opinion on the subject.quote
Like some sort of Renaissance?

Sure, if that's what you call it. I'm not an expert on the subject of trade organizations so I'll just assume anyone else is more correct than I am until proven otherwise.

[quote="lyonheart"]Hi Rednek731,

Welcome to the forum and enjoy your favorite simulated drink on the simulated forum.

You're spot on in that there will be all sorts of reactions to the coming chaos, humans being human after all.

Mike explained to Prime Minister Montague that the SEM had absolutely no interest in adding or annexing more star systems, because the TQ headaches had only begun and even with the best of will on all sides, there were still going to be huge headaches.

Simple bilateral treaties will be ever so much easier.

The SEM might encourage ex-RTU people to help organize similar groups, but since the RTU was a reaction to protect its members from OFS aggression, the need will soon no longer exist.

Regarding the ships and the crews to man them to accomplish all this, Beowulf has 9 billion people or half again the SKM's tech skilled population [plus San Martin] before the TQ added another 40 billion, and its tech is every bit as good as the SEM's.

I'm curious how quickly Beowulf will produce not just missiles, but LAC's and flight 2 Roland's, with room besides the flag accommodations I've mentioned previously, for at least a platoon of marines, now that Abigail has demonstrated her tactical brilliance again.

I'm curious what happens when MAlign leaders of the RF meet the GA's with their treecats, Visogoth, Mannerheim etc.

Definitely interesting times.

L


I would guess the Renaissance Association would be pleased to see a lot of other groupings. That will help them hide for a while. They can slowly expand their web. Help out planets, push for more active gene pruning. The second phase of their plot might take as long as the first, which was 500 years. As more planets use more genetic manipulation, they might well become undefeatable. The best way to expand is by NOT fighting.

Oh wow, I just realized that Renaissance reference went completely over my head. I completely forgot them to be honest. But yes that is another thing to consider; most likely whatever is left of malign is going to be consolidating as much as it can for the long haul, although how the alpha lines would do this is beyond me.

Also, I just realized another thing I should have pointed out earlier; public perception and foreign relations. Nations outside of the League and the GA will most likely be VERY concerned if they see what looks like blatant imperialism from a growing superpower, especially one with advanced warfighting technology that has decades of experience in interstellar warfare. Again, they may not see much difference between them and the League itself. Hell, even the GA's own citizens might start speaking out.