A question about shipping companies in Honorverse

Fox2! wrote:Objection! Fact not in evidence! There is no suggestion in textev that Hali Sowle was ever an honest merchie.

Take that up with Eric Flint. All I did was quote what he wrote into textev.

Fox2! wrote:

Cauldron of Ghosts wrote: Both of the frigates would be tractored to the hull of the Hali Sowle, riding the racks which had been built to transport external cargo canisters back when the freighter’s designers had thought they were building an honest merchantman.

Objection! Fact not in evidence! There is no suggestion in textev that Hali Sowle was ever an honest merchie.

The quote doesn't say that the Hali Soule was an honest merchantman. The textev says that the designers thought they were building an honest merchantman. Two very different things indeed.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Fox2! wrote:
Objection! Fact not in evidence! There is no suggestion in textev that Hali Sowle was ever an honest merchie.

The quote doesn't say that the Hali Soule was an honest merchantman. The textev says that the designers thought they were building an honest merchantman. Two very different things indeed.

Now that I will concede. The builders can't help it if she was seduced into a life of smuggling, rum running and playing transport service for a pair of Double Naught spies. And then became a camp follower to the BSC and Torch special operations.

If you get the chance, there is a Liberty Ship operating out of SanFrancisco. Its a museum ship but fully rated for steaming (and current ships officers etc have their certification posted in bridge area) and does various day/evening trips in the Bay. Built with classic (standard and very well proven) tripple expansion steam system, it was just another way to use low cost but effective designes to build ships which are reported to have been worth the materials (and crew) if they just survived one trip out with a full load of cargo. At the time it was very much a numbers game to get enough hulls moving enough cargo to fight the war faster than the enemy could sink them.
To go with the guns which were added to it, the "armor" for the gun tubs is concrete. Steel was in too high a demand and several inches of concrete would provide protection from shrapnel or aircraft machine-guns unless, of course, the splinters and bullets came in over the top of the screening material and it wouldn't make any difference.
When my father-in-law was on his way back to the Pacific war for a second tour, he was on a transport (didn't say what kind of ship) and, being a Gunner's Mate (he was in PT Boats working with .50cal and 20mm) he was assigned to be part of one of the gun crews on the trasnport for the trip out. This was probably a 3" gun from his description. One day, out in the middle of nowhere , every gun on the ship started firing and he ran from wherever he had been and joined in the chain at his gun passing ammunition. Shortly he noticed that all he could hear was the ship's guns and nothing else so he asked what they were shooting at. The answer was "nothing- Japan just surrendered". At which point he said he set down the shell he was holding and went back to his bunk.

Brigade XO wrote:If you get the chance, there is a Liberty Ship operating out of SanFrancisco. Its a museum ship but fully rated for steaming (and current ships officers etc have their certification posted in bridge area) and does various day/evening trips in the Bay. Built with classic (standard and very well proven) tripple expansion steam system, it was just another way to use low cost but effective designes to build ships which are reported to have been worth the materials (and crew) if they just survived one trip out with a full load of cargo. At the time it was very much a numbers game to get enough hulls moving enough cargo to fight the war faster than the enemy could sink them.
To go with the guns which were added to it, the "armor" for the gun tubs is concrete. Steel was in too high a demand and several inches of concrete would provide protection from shrapnel or aircraft machine-guns unless, of course, the splinters and bullets came in over the top of the screening material and it wouldn't make any difference.
When my father-in-law was on his way back to the Pacific war for a second tour, he was on a transport (didn't say what kind of ship) and, being a Gunner's Mate (he was in PT Boats working with .50cal and 20mm) he was assigned to be part of one of the gun crews on the trasnport for the trip out. This was probably a 3" gun from his description. One day, out in the middle of nowhere , every gun on the ship started firing and he ran from wherever he had been and joined in the chain at his gun passing ammunition. Shortly he noticed that all he could hear was the ship's guns and nothing else so he asked what they were shooting at. The answer was "nothing- Japan just surrendered". At which point he said he set down the shell he was holding and went back to his bunk.

IIRC there are 3 Victory ships and 2 Liberty ships still around.

they are IIRC Red Oak Victory American Victory and Lane Victory
Jeremiah O'brian and John Brown.

saber964 wrote:

IIRC there are 3 Victory ships and 2 Liberty ships still around.

they are IIRC Red Oak Victory American Victory and Lane Victory
Jeremiah O'brian and John Brown.

How about WWI concrete liberty ships - 10 are still visible forming a breakwater in Canada, and 9 are used as breakwaters in the Chesapeake. A handful of other concrete wrecks are spread around.

The SS John W Brown is one of the last riveted ships still afloat. It was brought to Toledo in 2000 to have all the rivets replaced (The Toledo shipyard had the last group of rivet specialists in the US). The other 4 surviving Liberties and Victories all were welded.

Brigade XO wrote:If you get the chance, there is a Liberty Ship operating out of SanFrancisco. Its a museum ship but fully rated for steaming (and current ships officers etc have their certification posted in bridge area) and does various day/evening trips in the Bay. Built with classic (standard and very well proven) tripple expansion steam system, it was just another way to use low cost but effective designes to build ships which are reported to have been worth the materials (and crew) if they just survived one trip out with a full load of cargo. At the time it was very much a numbers game to get enough hulls moving enough cargo to fight the war faster than the enemy could sink them.
To go with the guns which were added to it, the "armor" for the gun tubs is concrete. Steel was in too high a demand and several inches of concrete would provide protection from shrapnel or aircraft machine-guns unless, of course, the splinters and bullets came in over the top of the screening material and it wouldn't make any difference.

There's another liberty ship,museum ship in Baltimore, MD but I don't think they take her out on cruises like the San Fran based one.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:If you get the chance, there is a Liberty Ship operating out of SanFrancisco. Its a museum ship but fully rated for steaming (and current ships officers etc have their certification posted in bridge area) and does various day/evening trips in the Bay. Built with classic (standard and very well proven) tripple expansion steam system, it was just another way to use low cost but effective designes to build ships which are reported to have been worth the materials (and crew) if they just survived one trip out with a full load of cargo. At the time it was very much a numbers game to get enough hulls moving enough cargo to fight the war faster than the enemy could sink them.
To go with the guns which were added to it, the "armor" for the gun tubs is concrete. Steel was in too high a demand and several inches of concrete would provide protection from shrapnel or aircraft machine-guns unless, of course, the splinters and bullets came in over the top of the screening material and it wouldn't make any difference.

There's another liberty ship,museum ship in Baltimore, MD but I don't think they take her out on cruises like the San Fran based one.

I believe that's the John W Brown and she's fully refitted. IIRC the only Liberty or Victory ship not mobile is one in Greece.

saber964 wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:There's another liberty ship,museum ship in Baltimore, MD but I don't think they take her out on cruises like the San Fran based one.

I believe that's the John W Brown and she's fully refitted. IIRC the only Liberty or Victory ship not mobile is one in Greece.

I was incorrect and didn't bother to search first
I knew the SS Jeremiah O'Brien did cruises because, despite being on the other coast I'd toured her and they'd mentioned it. Somehow, despite being less than 90 minutes from the SS John W. Brown I'd never gotten around to touring her and hadn't heard about cruises (so thought maybe they didn't have the money to steam her) but a quick look at her website shows that they definitely do -- they just apparently don't do a good enough job advertising them that I'd heard about it.
Now I guess I'll have to keep an eye out for the a time I could sail on her out into the Chesapeake.

Thanks for all the info on the Liberty/Victory ships.