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High Ridge and Co blew their chance.

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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by ldwechsler   » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:49 pm

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isaac_newton wrote:
cthia wrote:It still represented a chance for the opposition to browbeat Honor and possibly soil her record, even if just getting beached.

Shoot for the moon for a court martial, but accept the beach.



Keep in mind that an administration has relatively little control over a court martial. Note that Cromarty was frustrated because of the people assigned to Honor's in Field of Dishonor.

Holding a court martial would be profoundly unpopular in the navy. Losing on would make the leaders look ridiculous. And note that two of the three anti-Honor officers have never been heard from again. Hemphill actually worked to do a settlement.

But it's clear that the other two would be going back to assignments with their subordinates and everyone else knowing they voted for the bad guy. Very hard to defend.
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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by saber964   » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:02 pm

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Okay, on naval criminal justice. When a ship is lost in combat there is always a board of inquiry to see if mistakes were made and if there were, what steps that can be taken to prevent further damage or loss. Usually this is pro-forma and rarely leads to a formal court martial, this can be abused (USS Indianapolis case in point)
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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by ldwechsler   » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:43 pm

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saber964 wrote:Okay, on naval criminal justice. When a ship is lost in combat there is always a board of inquiry to see if mistakes were made and if there were, what steps that can be taken to prevent further damage or loss. Usually this is pro-forma and rarely leads to a formal court martial, this can be abused (USS Indianapolis case in point)


There would have been a hearing. And the Wayfarer's record was spectacular. Being destroyed while taking out a major enemy ship alone would have normally brought honors. Remember this was a Q boat. It should have simply lost.
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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by saber964   » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:28 pm

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ldwechsler wrote:
saber964 wrote:Okay, on naval criminal justice. When a ship is lost in combat there is always a board of inquiry to see if mistakes were made and if there were, what steps that can be taken to prevent further damage or loss. Usually this is pro-forma and rarely leads to a formal court martial, this can be abused (USS Indianapolis case in point)


There would have been a hearing. And the Wayfarer's record was spectacular. Being destroyed while taking out a major enemy ship alone would have normally brought honors. Remember this was a Q boat. It should have simply lost.



IIRC

HMAMC Wayfarer

Score

2 BC
4 CA
1 CL
1 CL captured
1 DD
1 FG
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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by Bahzellstudent   » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:26 pm

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How would the anti-Honor faction have even known about Stilman and others left in the brig? They would simply amongst the list of Wayfarer personnel 'persished in action'?
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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:06 pm

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Theemile wrote:
Right, it was the Admiralty that was using the opportunity of the opposition's suggestion to use Honor, to try to rehabiliate her in everyone's eyes.



The Opposition discussion where bringing Honor back to command the AMCs was discussed specifically recognized that the reason the Admiralty would approve the suggestion, and that Honor would accept a demotion from second in command of the GSN to being a "Commodore of the Second Class" (having squadron command, but also commanding her own ship, rather than having a flag captain) in the RMN was that the Admiralty could reassign Honor after a year or two with the Q-ships.
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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:35 pm

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Bahzellstudent wrote:How would the anti-Honor faction have even known about Stilman and others left in the brig? They would simply amongst the list of Wayfarer personnel 'persished in action'?


Either somebody reading all of the logs, seeing the arrests and confinements, then looking at the survivor and casualty lists, seeing their names on the KIA list, and then asking questions, or a sympathizer among the survivors, or at Admiralty House tipping a member of Parliament or the enemedia.
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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by jdtinIA   » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:28 pm

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Bahzellstudent wrote:How would the anti-Honor faction have even known about Stilman and others left in the brig? They would simply amongst the list of Wayfarer personnel 'persished in action'?


Sorry it took so long to reply. Internet has been spotty lately.
Wayfarer transferred people and logs to the liner. The log would have recorded the charges against Stilman and co.
As to how the opposition would have found out - Take a look at the factionalism in the RMN. Prime example would be Young's Court-Martial.
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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by Bahzellstudent   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:19 am

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I concede that the logs (safely retrieved and therefor available to read) would show the charges against Stilman et al; but not the fact that he had been left in the brig to die - simply that he was not amongst those rescued from Wayfarer. There would have been a fair number of crew killed in the battle before the point of rescue, and all the records would show for many of them was 'missing presumed killed' (or the space equivalent). So there is nothing to show that Stilman and cronies were deliberately 'forgotten' about.
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Re: High Ridge and Co blew their chance.
Post by munroburton   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:04 am

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jdtinIA wrote:
Bahzellstudent wrote:How would the anti-Honor faction have even known about Stilman and others left in the brig? They would simply amongst the list of Wayfarer personnel 'persished in action'?


Sorry it took so long to reply. Internet has been spotty lately.
Wayfarer transferred people and logs to the liner. The log would have recorded the charges against Stilman and co.
As to how the opposition would have found out - Take a look at the factionalism in the RMN. Prime example would be Young's Court-Martial.


IIRC, Steilman and company were left behind because the brig personnel were killed - before the evacuation. From there, it's not a huge leap to write them off as having been killed in that first engagement too, before Honor carried out the first evacuation and then fought Wayfarer's final engagement - which did kill Steilman&Co - before the final evacuation.

Only we readers know they were alive for a bit longer. When Honor wrote her final reports, she probably assumed they had been killed in the first engagement because nobody had removed them during the first evacuation. It's an act of unknowing omission that the opposition can't possibly know about. None of the other surviving personnel knew any different and therefore couldn't put it in their own reports.

Besides, there was something else Honor actually lied about in her final report - that Wayfarer had been using an Andermani transponder code when Caslet's ship got involved. She was exposed on that - any surviving senior officers and bridge personnel, plus the Havenites themselves, could have contradicted her on that point.
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