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Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.

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Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by ThisName1   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:33 am

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With manticore closing all those handy warp termini to solarian shipping, and with manticore (and presumably their allies) ships pulled out of the Solarian League then what shipping interests exist outside of both of those spheres of influence should be able to make good money.

I'm thinking of any groups out there like the Rembrandt Trade Union, or for small local shipping concerns based in the verge. They have nothing on the transtellers for size but since their not solarian shouldn't they be able to use the termini? And if they can then they could make a lot of money by charging a premium for quick voyages.

Come to think of it, if I was a Solarian shipper i'd try to get some of my ships registered in verge systems with no connection to OFS.
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Re: Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by kzt   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:55 am

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RTU is Talbott, aka SEm. So no, not going into SL space.
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Re: Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by ThisName1   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:02 am

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kzt wrote:RTU is Talbott, aka SEm. So no, not going into SL space.


I know, I was using the RTU as an example of the type of organization I was thinking of.
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Re: Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by Nyssa   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:36 am

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One problem would be the lack of existing contacts. With no information on who needs to ship what where you would be reduced to cold calling on customers who would not know if their buyers/suppliers are still in business/ need the stuff/ can supply the stuff. These are called transport/supply chains for a reason. Once a link breaks the whole thing stops working.
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Re: Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:54 am

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Nyssa wrote:One problem would be the lack of existing contacts. With no information on who needs to ship what where you would be reduced to cold calling on customers who would not know if their buyers/suppliers are still in business/ need the stuff/ can supply the stuff. These are called transport/supply chains for a reason. Once a link breaks the whole thing stops working.


RMMM does two things. They carry shipping for SL transstellars to customers of those transstellars and they carry Manticoran owned cargo. Either way, they have the customer/receiver contacts from both their own cargos and those from SL firms.

Using those contacts, merchant skippers can begin to reconstruct supply lines. The good news is that Verge and Protectorate customers are likely to purchase finished goods. The Core and Shell worlds import a few luxury goods from the Verge and Protectorates. Those finished goods are easier to provide that specific goods required as part of a supply chain.

The Core and Shell have to reconstruct their supply chains for the most part, while the Verge and Protectorate simply have to find another source for finished goods. Ideally, they want to be supplied with the where withal to make most of those goods themselves. That makes it easier for the Alliance to supply existing known trade routes than for the League to rebuild theirs using different suppliers.
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Re: Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:33 pm

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ThisName1 wrote:
kzt wrote:RTU is Talbott, aka SEm. So no, not going into SL space.


I know, I was using the RTU as an example of the type of organization I was thinking of.


Shipping lines registered to Verge star nations, even those not under the protection of the League will simply be targets for confiscation as soon as they hit a Core or Shell world. Some transstellar will make a very low bid for the ship and the local courts will rubber stamp the "sale".

There will soon be a dearth of unaffiliated shipping. Those ships either join the League and likely end up captured or join the Alliance and likely face capture by the SLN. Not very many safe choices to be made.
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Re: Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by kzt   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:05 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
There will soon be a dearth of unaffiliated shipping. Those ships either join the League and likely end up captured or join the Alliance and likely face capture by the SLN. Not very many safe choices to be made.

And given the freighters are all something like 600 year old tech, if there is a significant shortage people will build lots of freighters in fairly short order. Funded by long-term contracts with industries that desperately need shipping. At which point the RMMM is going to be trying to renter a saturated market full of shippers with long-term contracts.
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Re: Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:44 pm

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kzt wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
There will soon be a dearth of unaffiliated shipping. Those ships either join the League and likely end up captured or join the Alliance and likely face capture by the SLN. Not very many safe choices to be made.

And given the freighters are all something like 600 year old tech, if there is a significant shortage people will build lots of freighters in fairly short order. Funded by long-term contracts with industries that desperately need shipping. At which point the RMMM is going to be trying to renter a saturated market full of shippers with long-term contracts.


Why would a shipper obligate himself to long term contracts in these conditions? His contracted carrier can be hijacked or captured and leave him obligated to allow the ship owner to find alternative ships. He can find another carrier only after he gives his original carrier time. A carrier can find someone in more desperate straits than the shipper that he has a long term contract with. At which point he is losing money because he cannot take advantage of the opportunity. Odds are that the conditions support very flexible contract terms for both parties. Initially, the carriers will want the flexibility to provide services to the highest bidder. Later as more carriers enter the market, shippers will want the flexibility to secure the lowest carrier. Both parties will want flexible terms at different times.

Flexible terms means a shipper can get out of any long term contract easily enough if the new terms are attractive enough. Given the amount of security the RMN can provide their merchant marine in a few short years, it might even be advantageous to pay the penalty to break a contract with a less well protected shipper.

Long terms contracts might mean more dependable revenue, but it also means dependably less revenue for the same amount of risk of being captured/hijacked.
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Re: Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by Nyssa   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:10 pm

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Peter, As I understood the original post, it was not about manti shippers. It was about ships like the 'Halie Soule'. The only shippers with access to rapid (weeks) information exchange are the manties and their allies. Everybody else is looking at months to many months for information to flow. You can not stop at a planet and pick up current trade info left by other ships in your conglomerate, there are no other ships. You have to learn everything yourself. And please don't tell me the Hail Soule' isn't a tramp any longer, it was and I couldn't think of any others.
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Re: Non-solarian, non-manticoran aligned shipping.
Post by robert132   » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:24 pm

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In the case of old style "blockades" a warship could stop any merchant, even a neutral, suspected of trading with the warring nation's enemies and inspect the manifest and cargo looking for bills indicating cargo origin and destination.

If the cargo was proscribed the whole shebang, ship AND cargo could be seized and taken as a prize or at least sent into port for an Admiralty Court to make a determination.

This was in the "civilized" days of warfare (Age of Sail through WWI) before unrestricted submarine warfare and indiscriminate mining was used to block the sea trade killing warring nations citizens and neutrals alike.

LaCoon in all forms so far appears to be spun off from that history.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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