NdEBELE N THANDI

Somtaaw wrote:

saber964 wrote:
IIRC Ramirez & Co are built massively not really short per say. Thomas is described as 1.8m tall and weighing 200 kg.

1.8m height is 5 foot 9. That's either average, or slightly above average height for males at this time.
<snip>

hmmm, 1.8 meters is 5.9 feet or ~5 foot 11 inches (10.87 inches), which is still average height for a male in the US, though is on the upper side of average.

Somtaaw wrote:

cthia wrote:I try to imagine how the oppspring of some pairings would turn out. In the case of Victor and Thandi, I wonder what their child would look like. Talk about how much more important a blood test before marriage might be in the Honorverse. Is their blood even compatible? Not by blood type but species incompatibility/undesirability. shrug

What would Kevin Usher's and Ginny's child turn out to be? Would she have to be given drugs to curtail her hormones so she won't be hanging out with the entire football team before she's even a teenager?

And what might the offspring of a Gryphon/Ndebele union turn out to be?

Thandi's still human, she mentions it not long after meeting Viktor in the restaurent or something that Ndebele was (re)found only a few generations before they would have been too in-bred to still count as human.


As for Ginny + Kevin's possible child, remember that sex slaves were essentially raped daily as part of their 'training'. That's why Ginny could practice on Viktor without actually following through and cheating on Kevin. It wasn't a biological/genetic disposition to having sex, but a conditioning... also look at Paulo and Helen. Paulo most definitely hasn't a horndog trying to stick it in at any chance.

Right, she's still human, which is my point in her case. Her genetics have been naturally evolved, and nothing of it is "locked." Therefore, I assume that that evolved genetic code can be passed on. Though I could certainly be wrong.

The sex slaves were raped daily as part of their training, beginning at age nine (a gasp as shocked as Victor's). However, the gist I got was that it was a measure used to ensure compliance to rule and subordination and to be preconditioned to submit to external sexual pressures from tricks—only. It was not to ensure libidinous nature—libidinous nature had already been emplaced. I think my point was made for me when Ginny teased Victor by telling her husband "I'll just be in my bedroom masturbating." That was lighthearted, teasing banter, yes. But true, IMO.

IOW, the Mesans were successful in increasing libido, just not necessarily successful in increasing conformance and obedience. That was the purpose of the rapes, a sort of mind conditioning to obedience and submission.

Think about it. They had to be successful in increasing libido, or their product would not have been successful. A sex slave constantly being used would have been a very "dry" product if not. And "dry" and sex slave does not gel, without KY. And KY lubes the sex organ, not the mind.

The thought carries more weight in males. Paulo hated what he was, yes. But, he, was. He could not have been what he was without his creators being successful in increasing his libido -- or he would have been as limp in his trousers as he was in his mind. Think of the technicians who were the would be rapists -- they had to be given drugs to perform. Sex was boring to them.

cthia wrote:
Right, she's still human, which is my point in her case. Her genetics have been naturally evolved, and nothing of it is "locked." Therefore, I assume that that evolved genetic code can be passed on. Though I could certainly be wrong.

The sex slaves were raped daily as part of their training, beginning at age nine (a gasp as shocked as Victor's). However, the gist I got was that it was a measure used to ensure compliance to rule and subordination and to be preconditioned to submit to external sexual pressures from tricks—only. It was not to ensure libidinous nature—libidinous nature had already been emplaced. I think my point was made for me when Ginny teased Victor by telling her husband "I'll just be in my bedroom masturbating." That was lighthearted, teasing banter, yes. But true, IMO.

IOW, the Mesans were successful in increasing libido, just not necessarily successful in increasing conformance and obedience. That was the purpose of the rapes, a sort of mind conditioning to obedience and submission.

Think about it. They had to be successful in increasing libido, or their product would not have been successful. A sex slave constantly being used would have been a very "dry" product if not. And "dry" and sex slave does not gel, without KY. And KY lubes the sex organ, not the mind.

The thought carries more weight in males. Paulo hated what he was, yes. But, he, was. He could not have been what he was without his creators being successful in increasing his libido -- or he would have been as limp in his trousers as he was in his mind. Think of the technicians who were the would be rapists -- they had to be given drugs to perform. Sex was boring to them.

Just the thought of what these fictional geneticists and slavers would do to "train" 9 year old kids leaves this old sailor, Dad and GrandPa with a real world desire to slip a noose around those fictional necks and s l o w l y hoist them to where their toes just barely support some weight.

Or simply tie them up and turn my wife and daughter loose on them with small, sharp knives. Did I ever mention they have some Cherokee or Seminole blood in them?

I wonder if anyone in the Honorverse would have similar thoughts?

robert132 wrote:

cthia wrote:
Right, she's still human, which is my point in her case. Her genetics have been naturally evolved, and nothing of it is "locked." Therefore, I assume that that evolved genetic code can be passed on. Though I could certainly be wrong.

The sex slaves were raped daily as part of their training, beginning at age nine (a gasp as shocked as Victor's). However, the gist I got was that it was a measure used to ensure compliance to rule and subordination and to be preconditioned to submit to external sexual pressures from tricks—only. It was not to ensure libidinous nature—libidinous nature had already been emplaced. I think my point was made for me when Ginny teased Victor by telling her husband "I'll just be in my bedroom masturbating." That was lighthearted, teasing banter, yes. But true, IMO.

IOW, the Mesans were successful in increasing libido, just not necessarily successful in increasing conformance and obedience. That was the purpose of the rapes, a sort of mind conditioning to obedience and submission.

Think about it. They had to be successful in increasing libido, or their product would not have been successful. A sex slave constantly being used would have been a very "dry" product if not. And "dry" and sex slave does not gel, without KY. And KY lubes the sex organ, not the mind.

The thought carries more weight in males. Paulo hated what he was, yes. But, he, was. He could not have been what he was without his creators being successful in increasing his libido -- or he would have been as limp in his trousers as he was in his mind. Think of the technicians who were the would be rapists -- they had to be given drugs to perform. Sex was boring to them.

Just the thought of what these fictional geneticists and slavers would do to "train" 9 year old kids leaves this old sailor, Dad and GrandPa with a real world desire to slip a noose around those fictional necks and s l o w l y hoist them to where their toes just barely support some weight.

Or simply tie them up and turn my wife and daughter loose on them with small, sharp knives. Did I ever mention they have some Cherokee or Seminole blood in them?

I wonder if anyone in the Honorverse would have similar thoughts?

Feeling like Victor when listening to Ginny, 'eh robert? You and me both.

Ah, that's a looong list with Jeremy at the top.

If it's any consolation, one of the technicians was caught out on vacation and "hoist by his own petard." The torch of the Statue of Liberty did some raping of its own.

Actual in text its stated that "sex slaves" have the highest escape rate once they leave the high security environment on Mesa due to "High Libido being crossed linked to a certain type of cleverness"

Garth 2 wrote:Actual in text its stated that "sex slaves" have the highest escape rate once they leave the high security environment on Mesa due to "High Libido being crossed linked to a certain type of cleverness"

'Tis true and iinm it specifically formed part of the basis of the rapes—preconditioning for compliance. No different than what two-bit pimps did to their whores in the early 70's. If your will is broken, so too is your cleverness—so thought the MAlign. Though I'd hazard a guess that total subservience is a result in some cases.

The only time when Ginny's exterior was broken is when she was intimately sharing with Victor what it is like being a sex slave—being constantly told that you have no rights because THERE SIMPLY IS NO YOU. She shared that with Victor through tear-filled eyes and I tasted the salt in those gleaming, glistening goblets of water because my Tester saw it fit to breath an excessive amount of the human element inside of me.

Simply because you have a high sex drive doesn't mean you'd want to drive every Tom, Dick or Harry. You'd want to pick and choose, and if you're a woman, like Ginny, you'd certainly not want some unkempt, sloven, overweight smelly man all over you.

Yet if you're a sexual product, you're supposed to do as you're told. And like it.

Genetic tampering cannot strip away the "human element" inside. One of my arguments on this forum since joining.

Seems the MAlign are very aware of that fact. So they try and remove the human element after harvesting. By raping it away.

In Ginny's case, when the technician was famously found hoisted and raped by his own petard, Ginny saw that inside she was human and that she is somebody, because that act confirmed in her mind through the acts, eyes and heart of somebody else, that what was happening to her, had happened to her, is wrong.

That famous impaling validated Ginny's humanity. And I would imagine many other sex slaves as well.

cthia wrote:

Garth 2 wrote:Actual in text its stated that "sex slaves" have the highest escape rate once they leave the high security environment on Mesa due to "High Libido being crossed linked to a certain type of cleverness"

'Tis true and iinm it specifically formed part of the basis of the rapes—preconditioning for compliance. No different than what two-bit pimps did to their whores in the early 70's. If your will is broken, so too is your cleverness—so thought the MAlign. Though I'd hazard a guess that total subservience is a result in some cases.

The only time when Ginny's exterior was broken is when she was intimately sharing with Victor what it is like being a sex slave—being constantly told that you have no rights because THERE SIMPLY IS NO YOU. She shared that with Victor through tear-filled eyes and I tasted the salt in those gleaming, glistening goblets of water because my Tester saw it fit to breath an excessive amount of the human element inside of me.

Simply because you have a high sex drive doesn't mean you'd want to drive every Tom, Dick or Harry. You'd want to pick and choose, and if you're a woman, like Ginny, you'd certainly not want some unkempt, sloven, overweight smelly man all over you.

Yet if you're a sexual product, you're supposed to do as you're told. And like it.

Genetic tampering cannot strip away the "human element" inside. One of my arguments on this forum since joining.

Seems the MAlign are very aware of that fact. So they try and remove the human element after harvesting. By raping it away.

In Ginny's case, when the technician was famously found hoisted and raped by his own petard, Ginny saw that inside she was human and that she is somebody, because that act confirmed in her mind through the acts, eyes and heart of somebody else, that what was happening to her, had happened to her, is wrong.

That famous impaling validated Ginny's humanity. And I would imagine many other sex slaves as well.

Raising the libido does not necessarily work in terms of making a sex slave. The raping is done to increase obedience. The Russians used it to train their 'sparrows' there, women who were used to convince non-Russians to betray their countries. The rapes did not particularly make the women more receptive, but it did make them feel worthless and therefore more willing to accept bad treatment.

Chances are, the sex slaves escaped more because they were in situations with less control. Far easier to get out of a master's house than off a great plantation. And their looks might win them outside assistance.

I wonder about the efficiency of a Ndebeles' metabolism? It seems they would have a heck of a metabolism as well.

In fact, I always wondered why textev didn't highlight a San Martin's appetite in the same manner as Honor's. Seems like the Ramirezes together would be able to eat an entire Montana longhorn steer. I can't figure out how a Ramirez even survived on Hades without beating everyone up and taking their lunch. LOL

cthia wrote:I wonder about the efficiency of a Ndebeles' metabolism? It seems they would have a heck of a metabolism as well.

In fact, I always wondered why textev didn't highlight a San Martin's appetite in the same manner as Honor's. Seems like the Ramirezes together would be able to eat an entire Montana longhorn steer. I can't figure out how a Ramirez even survived on Hades without beating everyone up and taking their lunch. LOL

Ramirez was probably eating extra rations to maintain his health. IIRC Honor deliberately 'starved' herself because she refused to demean herself to ask for extra rations. IIRC it takes place when she beat the crap out of one of her guards.

saber964 wrote:

cthia wrote:I wonder about the efficiency of a Ndebeles' metabolism? It seems they would have a heck of a metabolism as well.

In fact, I always wondered why textev didn't highlight a San Martin's appetite in the same manner as Honor's. Seems like the Ramirezes together would be able to eat an entire Montana longhorn steer. I can't figure out how a Ramirez even survived on Hades without beating everyone up and taking their lunch. LOL

Ramirez was probably eating extra rations to maintain his health. IIRC Honor deliberately 'starved' herself because she refused to demean herself to ask for extra rations. IIRC it takes place when she beat the crap out of one of her guards.

I certainly hope so or someone, or someones (LOL), was terrified daily for their lunch.

Problem is, with a San Martin's probable metabolism, extra rations may not mean very much at all, inadequately vague. Getting enough to stay alive would be at least the equivalent of one extra Manticoran's daily rations. To stay healthy is two Manticoran's daily rations. Nominal for a San Martin is three Manticoran's daily rations. LOL