Issues with the Wayfarer's Armament

Poor Wayfarer we hardly knew thee....

Honor Among Enemies is still my favorite Honerverse novel, But yeah the whole design was a glass cannon concept designed to kill the enemy in one salvo. If the enemy manages to shoot back the AMC is in deep trouble as we saw in the book.

Roguevictory wrote:Poor Wayfarer we hardly knew thee....

Honor Among Enemies is still my favorite Honerverse novel, But yeah the whole design was a glass cannon concept designed to kill the enemy in one salvo. If the enemy manages to shoot back the AMC is in deep trouble as we saw in the book.

The Wayfarers were designed to take on the flock of pirates everybody believed were infesting Silesia. Going up against major Peep combatants was way out of CONOPS. Even Warneke's CAs would have been out of bonds, if they hadn't been Silesian.

Fox2! wrote:The Wayfarers were designed to take on the flock of pirates everybody believed were infesting Silesia. Going up against major Peep combatants was way out of CONOPS. Even Warneke's CAs would have been out of bonds, if they hadn't been Silesian.

Technically, they weren't designed for the Silesian theater at all. They were designed as convoy escorts for use on the Peep front. That they were just as good - or better - at pirate suppression was just happy coincidence.

Duckk wrote:

Fox2! wrote:The Wayfarers were designed to take on the flock of pirates everybody believed were infesting Silesia. Going up against major Peep combatants was way out of CONOPS. Even Warneke's CAs would have been out of bonds, if they hadn't been Silesian.

Technically, they weren't designed for the Silesian theater at all. They were designed as convoy escorts for use on the Peep front. That they were just as good - or better - at pirate suppression was just happy coincidence.

Yep, a glass cannon hidden in the fleet train shuttling supplies to the Trevor's Stsr front. If nearby when Peep BCs try to smash through the convoys screening CLs or CAs they roll pods and help swat them away... At least that seems to have been the original plan.

Jonathan_S wrote:Yep, a glass cannon hidden in the fleet train shuttling supplies to the Trevor's Stsr front. If nearby when Peep BCs try to smash through the convoys screening CLs or CAs they roll pods and help swat them away... At least that seems to have been the original plan.

I think the concept also would have freed up escorts from the fleet train. The dozen LACs on each AMC would have given a nice outer screen after the train was left by the assault force.

Theemile wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Yep, a glass cannon hidden in the fleet train shuttling supplies to the Trevor's Stsr front. If nearby when Peep BCs try to smash through the convoys screening CLs or CAs they roll pods and help swat them away... At least that seems to have been the original plan.

I think the concept also would have freed up escorts from the fleet train. The dozen LACs on each AMC would have given a nice outer screen after the train was left by the assault force.

Not those early flight LAC's, they were better than prior LACs but they had none of the first-gen Shrike capabilities, so good for swatting pirates, and third-rate navies only. Those two possible hostiles, according to the book, go heavy on offensive firepower and at best a mere token nod towards defenses.

And even the Shrike-Alpha's wouldn't have been all that hot in the small quantities each AMC carried. LAC's from the Minotaur onwards are organized in base-12 squadrons, each AMC only carried 8 LAC's. And the Shrike-A's hadn't benefitted from the Second Hancock experience to turn into the Bravo's that were used operationally throughout the Buttercup Offensive.

So far as we know, they're still using the Shrike-Bravo now, even if the Katana's have surpassed all other LAC variants for supremacy.

In HAE, Honor states that 6 of them could probably hold off a Peep heavy cruiser in a pinch. They'd certainly be enough to fend off DD and CL raiders.

Duckk wrote:In HAE, Honor states that 6 of them could probably hold off a Peep heavy cruiser in a pinch. They'd certainly be enough to fend off DD and CL raiders.

Wasn't that observation also while thinking about the off-chance of Peep commerce raiders?

If the AMC's had been attached to the Fleet Train, then-supplying Trevors Star, any Peep heavy cruisers would have been operating in squadron or better strength.

And 6 to 8 of the AMC LAC's, versus 8 Peep Heavy Cruisers? Even with the AMC herself rolling the SD grade missiles, that's still an awful lot. Especially when we consider the scenario in which Wonderboy does his 3 minute hack on the computers to "save the day"... those LAC's were getting torn to shreds and it was the full launchbays from TWO AMC's versus I think it was 2 squadrons of heavy cruisers with 2 converted "missile freighters" for backup.


In a AMC's full deckload versus any singleton, sure a heavy cruiser's toast. She can't possibly roll her wedge to cover all angles and skew turn to prevent hammerhead strikes while also trying to cover from the AMC's superdreadnought weapons.

Somtaaw wrote:
Not those early flight LAC's, they were better than prior LACs but they had none of the first-gen Shrike capabilities, so good for swatting pirates, and third-rate navies only. Those two possible hostiles, according to the book, go heavy on offensive firepower and at best a mere token nod towards defenses.

And even the Shrike-Alpha's wouldn't have been all that hot in the small quantities each AMC carried. LAC's from the Minotaur onwards are organized in base-12 squadrons, each AMC only carried 8 LAC's. And the Shrike-A's hadn't benefitted from the Second Hancock experience to turn into the Bravo's that were used operationally throughout the Buttercup Offensive.

So far as we know, they're still using the Shrike-Bravo now, even if the Katana's have surpassed all other LAC variants for supremacy.

The AMCs carried 12 LACs each - that is why the Wayfarer's were named after the Apostles. I also believe that the AMC's were intended to operate in groups, not solo, with fleet trains and supply caravans. 12 LACs might not be a big deciding factor, but 24 - 48 would. I also don't think that in 1910 AMCs would completely replace convoy or fleet train escorts, but allow a significant fraction of the escorts to be used elsewhere. If you could change 4 CLs for 2 CLs and 2 AMCs, you could get far better screening and terminal firepower. Yes, they would be a speed bump if a squadron of SD's rolled in, but then again, any CL/CA combo would.

Jonathan_S wrote:Yep, a glass cannon hidden in the fleet train shuttling supplies to the Trevor's Stsr front. If nearby when Peep BCs try to smash through the convoys screening CLs or CAs they roll pods and help swat them away... At least that seems to have been the original plan.

That was the general idea behind the British Royal Navy adding AMCs to the North Atlantic convoys early in WWII, something better able to deal with the AMC raiders that the Germans sent out early in the war than the sloops and frigates that made up the (very slim) bulk of the RN's convoy escorts. The little guys carried depth charges for ASW work but pee shooter guns while the AMCs carried heavier metal, sometimes as heavy as old 6" pieces, though normally the weapons would be in the range of 4" to 5".

If a regular warship like a CA or Battlecruiser like Scharnhorst showed up then the AMC would be totally out classed and out gunned and would be doing well simply to keep the enemy warship busy while the convoy scattered. HMS Rawalpindi (AMC) met her end delaying Scharnhorst AND sister Gneisenau while her convoy made smoke and scattered.

Frankly, I like the idea of an AMC like Wayfarer being able to uncork a shipkilling surprise like those pods and still have the LACs available to bolster her own anti-missle defenses or cover another convoy sector.