What's under the Temple? A new possibility.

SNIP

Randomiser wrote:I disagree. AFAIR all that is said is that in the Federation implants were inserted in early childhood, full stop. There is no comment or speculation on the possibility of adults receiving implants in the text. (Please show quotes if I'm wrong.)

I don't think your memory's wrong, Randomiser. I definitely recall the text in which Merlin states that the implants were normally put in during very early childhood.

BUT... That being said, there was no textev that stated or even implied that it couldn't be done later in life.

My sense is that it wasn't done later in life only because the Federation / Earthlings wanted to be able to educate their children completely starting at an early age...

SNIP

DrakBibliophile wrote:...

You do bring up a good point, I assumed that the "hand print reader" was to show that the person was a descendant of Schueler.

...

Drak: You could very well be right that the place where you put your hands is in fact a full handprint scanner. But I didn't read it that way. I read it only as a requirement that one put one's hands into the impressions of the hands. I didn't assume any scanning technology implications.

Ergo --> No handprint confirmation that it's a Wylsynn... Trying hard to NOT read anything into this that's not clearly there...

While not sure yet exactly what happens when "the thing under the Temple" is woken up, I believe a simple explanation of what placing your hands into the handprints does is a verifier -- that is a truth verifier much like Paityr's.

After all, one of the requirements to wake "the thing under the temple" is a belief that the Church/Temple is in peril. So a truth verifier would probably be included. So there might be some sort of question & answer protocol included as part of the process.

dobriennm wrote:While not sure yet exactly what happens when "the thing under the Temple" is woken up, I believe a simple explanation of what placing your hands into the handprints does is a verifier -- that is a truth verifier much like Paityr's.

After all, one of the requirements to wake "the thing under the temple" is a belief that the Church/Temple is in peril. So a truth verifier would probably be included. So there might be some sort of question & answer protocol included as part of the process.

Could someone with a searchable copy of the relevant title remind us whether Paityr's Verifier needed physical contact from the person being checked?

Presumably the handprints in the altar are not just theatre? I.e. they do something more than make the process more dramatic? My own guess was a DNA scanner, probably for the Wylsynn's (given later developments, possibly for a descendant of Scheuler) or possibly against certain others. However a Verifier would also be a possibility if those need physical contact.

Randomiser wrote:Could someone with a searchable copy of the relevant title remind us whether Paityr's Verifier needed physical contact from the person being checked?

Presumably the handprints in the altar are not just theatre? I.e. they do something more than make the process more dramatic? My own guess was a DNA scanner, probably for the Wylsynn's (given later developments, possibly for a descendant of Scheuler) or possibly against certain others. However a Verifier would also be a possibility if those need physical contact.

The verifier didn't connect with Merlin's brain until he touched it. Since it does work on brainwaves, the touching might be the trigger for the software to initiate. Perhaps it needs to touch the being to confirm which set of brainwaves to use from the many it might be able to sense.

In any case, it might be safest to assume some form of touching is required for the verifier or similar sensing systems to work.

PeterZ wrote:

Randomiser wrote:Could someone with a searchable copy of the relevant title remind us whether Paityr's Verifier needed physical contact from the person being checked?

Presumably the handprints in the altar are not just theatre? I.e. they do something more than make the process more dramatic? My own guess was a DNA scanner, probably for the Wylsynn's (given later developments, possibly for a descendant of Scheuler) or possibly against certain others. However a Verifier would also be a possibility if those need physical contact.

The verifier didn't connect with Merlin's brain until he touched it. Since it does work on brainwaves, the touching might be the trigger for the software to initiate. Perhaps it needs to touch the being to confirm which set of brainwaves to use from the many it might be able to sense.

In any case, it might be safest to assume some form of touching is required for the verifier or similar sensing systems to work.

Further to PeterZ's comments and so you can easily find it yourself, here's the textev citation:
Off Armageddon Reef, February, Year of God 891, II. Royal Palace, Tellesberg

"The nature of the Stone of Schueler," Wylsynn continued, "is that if any lie is spoken by someone whiel touching it, the Stone will turn the color of blood..."

Later in the chapter:

"Unlike earlier attempts to produce a reliable means of determining truthfulness, the verifier used the brain waves of the individual being questioned."

So it appears that one needs physical contact with the verifier to "activate" it, but that once one is touching it, then it reads that person's brain waves.

Of course there's no reason why a verifier should need to be of the shape / size of Wylsynn's. I guess a verifier could be any shape, even the shape of hand prints.

WeberFan wrote:Of course there's no reason why a verifier should need to be of the shape / size of Wylsynn's. I guess a verifier could be any shape, even the shape of hand prints.

Why would the console need a built-in verifier when Paityr Wylsynn's when it won't work without the Stone (verifier) and Key of Schuler?

As quoted earlier by Thanatos(?):

One problem with that: Paityr said that, according to the "vision of Schueler", one needs to place the key and the stone in the alter and place one's hands in the suitable indentations.

To make sure people were touching the verifier while it's connected to the sysyem?

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Weird Harold wrote:

WeberFan wrote:Of course there's no reason why a verifier should need to be of the shape / size of Wylsynn's. I guess a verifier could be any shape, even the shape of hand prints.

Why would the console need a built-in verifier when Paityr Wylsynn's when it won't work without the Stone (verifier) and Key of Schuler?

As quoted earlier by Thanatos(?):

One problem with that: Paityr said that, according to the "vision of Schueler", one needs to place the key and the stone in the alter and place one's hands in the suitable indentations.

Maybe a sort of multi-level security
- they have Stone [check]
- they have Key [check]
- they correctly id/answer questions with console verifier [check]

I'd turn it round - why not have an independent verifier in the console - it's just tech after all, that the industrial modules could easily produce.


One speculation, since we know this is a one shot operation, maybe the key and stone were put in the console to be kept safe/destroyed after that use?

isaac_newton wrote:Maybe a sort of multi-level security
- they have Stone [check]
- they have Key [check]
- they correctly id/answer questions with console verifier [check]

I'd turn it round - why not have an independent verifier in the console - it's just tech after all, that the industrial modules could easily produce.

KISS. A built-in verifier isn't needed if the Stone is required and would be just one more point of failure.

isaac_newton wrote:One speculation, since we know this is a one shot operation, maybe the key and stone were put in the console to be kept safe/destroyed after that use?

As long as we're indulging in rampant speculation...

The lucky Wylsynn fated to activate the console puts the Stone in slot A, the Key in Slot B and then puts his (her) hands in the designated positions.

The "Altar" immediately locks the hands in position and injects specialized nanites to build a psuedo-NEAT if the LW (Lucky Wylsynn) doesn't already have one.

It decompresses the stored personality in the Key while using the brain-wave monitoring circuits in the Verifier (Stone) to download the LW personality and wiping the LW clean of any trace of personality.

Once the Psuedo-NEAT is complete, the "Altar" uploads the decompressed personality into the former LW's brain.

Hey! Presto! instant reincarnated Angel Schuler! Too bad about the LW.