BC(C) (Spoiler Within)

Relax wrote:

MaxxQ wrote:No folding. Period. Full stop. Nyet. Nein.

Any specific reason why not? Are the port and Starboard gravitic arrays a single unit on a LAC? IE it is actually a single gravitic array, not two gravitic arrays?

Two seperate arrays. Show me textev or a pearl that says they fold, and then they'll fold. Until then, my last post applies.

MaxxQ wrote:Two seperate arrays. Show me textev or a pearl that says they fold, and then they'll fold. Until then, my last post applies.

So, as far as you are aware, it is not a nailed down answer by Bu9 or his Celery chomper self.

The fact that EoH drawings do not show gravitic arrays on LAC's and in fact shows the LAC bays to be HIGHER than they are WIDE seems to indicate that the array's do indeed fold. So, either gravitic arrays were folded in EoH, or things have changed since then.

In either case, I showed 8 LAC's with gravitic arrays in full extension.

I see no reason they could not fold. Every other sensor known to mankind can fold. But maybe in the future, materials and engineers become "stiffs".

Relax wrote:

MaxxQ wrote:Two seperate arrays. Show me textev or a pearl that says they fold, and then they'll fold. Until then, my last post applies.

So, as far as you are aware, it is not a nailed down answer by Bu9 or his Celery chomper self.

The fact that EoH drawings do not show gravitic arrays on LAC's and in fact shows the LAC bays to be HIGHER than they are WIDE seems to indicate that the array's do indeed fold. So, either gravitic arrays were folded in EoH, or things have changed since then.

In either case, I showed 8 LAC's with gravitic arrays in full extension.

I see no reason they could not fold. Every other sensor known to mankind can fold. But maybe in the future, materials and engineers become "stiffs".

I guess you missed the note that anything BuNine does NOW supercedes any previous art.

"Every other sensor known to mankind can fold."

Show me video of Arecibo folding. Or the VLA in New Mexico. Or even a single dish from the VLA. Show me the dish on an EC-135 folding. Or, the aircraft carrier version.

MaxxQ wrote:
I guess you missed the note that anything BuNine does NOW supercedes any previous art.

"Every other sensor known to mankind can fold."

Show me video of Arecibo folding. Or the VLA in New Mexico. Or even a single dish from the VLA. Show me the dish on an EC-135 folding. Or, the aircraft carrier version.

Or possibly even more to the point - the arms on LIGO; which need to measure a known length to the width of a proton to detect real-world gravity waves. That kind of precision is hard enough to achieve when everything is as fixed and rigid as humanly possible.

The phased array you mentioned? Is a perfect example of calibration and flexibility over rigidity. Those dishes change shape based on temperature or wind gusts. THEY MOVE. Many multiple dishes all have to be aligned and calibrated in real time. Not a problem. Used to do it with radio waves, now we do it with laser inferometers via optical fiber usually.

Its all about built in calibration for sensors. Why? Temperature gradients move the sensors themselves and have to be constantly calibrated. Its all about positional accuracy. Why good AESA arrays are built on a bimetallic flexible base... Purposefully, so they can flex and move.

Now add that those gravitic sensors "should" be outside the compensator field and able to withstand 700+g..... Yea, those puppies are wiggling and waggling all over the place. They have to have dynamic calibration for position, and how increased stress caused by acceleration/jerk effects the electrical conductivity, emmissivity, etc material property of a stretched/compressed material.

Your aligned LIGO..... Can only do so at one temperature, one stress level. Why they have to try and do real time inferometry as even someone walking close by will stretch/move a material at the photon level meters away.

Why accelerometer labs are built on fine dry silica sand 10 meters deep with 1 meter thick concrete "tub" to try and zone out cars/trucks driving several hundred meters away. They still can't.

It is all about calibration on the fly. This is where the magic comes from.

NOTHING is rigid. NOTHING

For instance, light based RING laser gyros are the pinnacle of position internal navigation systems. So, we have light... moving at 300,000km/s racing around, mirrors, optical fibers in a circle and we are measuring tiny fractions of spin angular velocity in 3 dimensions by measuring how much "slower" said light beam moves around this ~4(10cm)inch circle. I'll let you do the math on how many revolutions the light "spun" going around that circle and what its delay is. This must be kept at constant temperature because if the temp changes by even 0.01C(it is calibrated much better than this), the circle changes diameter throwing off the calculations.

SO, the fact is EVERY SENSOR MOVES massively compared to how sensitive its accuracy must be. It does not matter that the sensor MOVES. They all do. What DOES matter is how you, the design engineer, constantly calibrate said moving, flexing, twisting, stretching, vibrating, sensor. IN REAL TIME. Folding a sensor when launching, a one time occurrence is beyond trivial in comparison.

Its the difference between lighting a match, and exploding a nuclear bomb

Relax wrote:Many things to make him look smart, but is in fact,
attempting to change what he said

You didn't say every sensor known to man moves; you said "every other sensor known to mankind can fold". I asked for some specific examples.

Can't back up your statement?

MaxxQ wrote:

Relax wrote:Many things to make him look smart, but is in fact,
attempting to change what he said

You didn't say every sensor known to man moves; you said "every other sensor known to mankind can fold". I asked for some specific examples.

Can't back up your statement?

I backed it up with about 10 different examples.
Even used yours.

Not my problem you can't read basic engineering.

So, a hinge, an actuator arm, and a lock, are as difficult to produce as an electric cord in the honorverse..... Damn, how did they ever manage to figure out how to open/close a LAC bay door...

This isn't going anywhere, good night.

Relax wrote:

MaxxQ wrote:
You didn't say every sensor known to man moves; you said "every other sensor known to mankind can fold". I asked for some specific examples.

Can't back up your statement?

I backed it up with about 10 different examples.
Even used yours.

Not my problem you can't read basic engineering.

So, a hinge, an actuator arm, and a lock, are as difficult to produce as an electric cord in the honorverse..... Damn, how did they ever manage to figure out how to open/close a LAC bay door...

This isn't going anywhere, good night.

There's a difference between "fold" and "wiggle". Not my fault you can't understand that.

All you gave were examples of wiggling, vibration, etc. Nothing you mentioned folded.

MaxxQ wrote:

Relax wrote:
This isn't going anywhere, good night.

There's a difference between "fold" and "wiggle". Not my fault you can't understand that.

All you gave were examples of wiggling, vibration, etc. Nothing you mentioned folded.

And what precisely do you think RADAR antennas have done since its inception? Hrmm? Good grief....

Folded, rotated...

Give ya a hint about basic engineering(applied physics). Calibrating for the small stuff is VASTLY more difficult and complex than compensating for a LARGE external movement .... that happens once and then your sensor is locked in place where the calibration takes place.

And just what do you think NASA has been proposing and doing for a VERY long time with their folding space based mirrors? Hrmm? NASA is getting ready to launch said gigantic mirror assembly...

Relax wrote:
Your aligned LIGO..... Can only do so at one temperature, one stress level. Why they have to try and do real time inferometry as even someone walking close by will stretch/move a material at the photon level meters away.

Why accelerometer labs are built on fine dry silica sand 10 meters deep with 1 meter thick concrete "tub" to try and zone out cars/trucks driving several hundred meters away. They still can't.

It is all about calibration on the fly. This is where the magic comes from.

NOTHING is rigid. NOTHING

For instance, light based RING laser gyros are the pinnacle of position internal navigation systems. So, we have light... moving at 300,000km/s racing around, mirrors, optical fibers in a circle and we are measuring tiny fractions of spin angular velocity in 3 dimensions by measuring how much "slower" said light beam moves around this ~4(10cm)inch circle. I'll let you do the math on how many revolutions the light "spun" going around that circle and what its delay is. This must be kept at constant temperature because if the temp changes by even 0.01C(it is calibrated much better than this), the circle changes diameter throwing off the calculations.

SO, the fact is EVERY SENSOR MOVES massively compared to how sensitive its accuracy must be. It does not matter that the sensor MOVES. They all do. What DOES matter is how you, the design engineer, constantly calibrate said moving, flexing, twisting, stretching, vibrating, sensor. IN REAL TIME. Folding a sensor when launching, a one time occurrence is beyond trivial in comparison.

Its the difference between lighting a match, and exploding a nuclear bomb

Ummh, no. And I am a research physicist, and have done interferometry of a type for close to 50 years, until I retired. I was a research student for Rai Weiss, the fellow who invented LIGO, and was at the student seminar at which he first proposed the device.

Sand tubs are obsolete, and have been for half a century. Readers interested in modern tech should investigate https://www.newport.com/ .

Second, the core vibration at LIGO starts with massive objects hung from very weak springs. There is then a vast amount of compensation, as described above. LIGO runs as the outside-the-building temperature changes, for reasonably long periods of time. The extremely long optical paths are cryogenically pumped vacua.