Last use for SL SD captured

The E wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:However, aside from that skepticism that most ships are universal enough to permit basic flight, without the massive remedial training, Solly superdreadnoughts are simply too big, and not worth throwing into a shipyard when modern podnoughts and CLAC's need to be built instead.

The thing I would compare the instances you mention to is something like a US crew taking over a chinese submarine. Most of the controls and basic concepts will be fairly obvious on an intuitive level, so driving that boat to a friendly harbour will at least be possible (if not exactly comfortably so), but anything more complex becomes exponentially more difficult, and taking such a ship into combat is a very bad idea under normal circumstances. The big-picture controls are all very much equivalent, it's just that without being trained on the intricacies of the control systems and the proper maintenance procedures, operating the ship at the skill level necessary for combat use isn't going to happen.

Sure, but kzt likes to try and suggest you couldn't even operate someone else's ship at all. Textev proves that you can operate the fusion cores, helm, astrogation and at the very least, extremely limited tactical on virtually everybody's ships.

All text ev shows, you're quite right, you turn the wedge on/off, you can enter/exit hyper, and you can generally go from point A to B without putting the instruction manual in your lap.

So the best case scenario for the Solly SD's is pretty much handing them over, wholesale, to Talbott Quadrant systems. If they manage to break one, oh well Manticoran has hundreds of them, and in the meantime it's even better than a simulator for hands-on training, and familiarization work. Which all TQ need before they get sent off to Saganami Island for real naval training.

Solly SD's might not be perfect, but they'd supply actual hands on stuff, that no simulator training will ever be able to compete with.

The E wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:However, aside from that skepticism that most ships are universal enough to permit basic flight, without the massive remedial training, Solly superdreadnoughts are simply too big, and not worth throwing into a shipyard when modern podnoughts and CLAC's need to be built instead.

The thing I would compare the instances you mention to is something like a US crew taking over a chinese submarine. Most of the controls and basic concepts will be fairly obvious on an intuitive level, so driving that boat to a friendly harbour will at least be possible (if not exactly comfortably so), but anything more complex becomes exponentially more difficult, and taking such a ship into combat is a very bad idea under normal circumstances. The big-picture controls are all very much equivalent, it's just that without being trained on the intricacies of the control systems and the proper maintenance procedures, operating the ship at the skill level necessary for combat use isn't going to happen.

I always think about it just like modern computers. You give an IPhone user an Android, he will figure out how to make a phone call... given a few minutes.

As an IT person in the corporate world, we usually just use Windows PCs. Some years back I had a customer facing position where I worked with corporate customers off the street - I would have people bring me their PCs not knowing how to use basic functions properly - like connecting to a projector. Over the years, I've had to figure out issues on every type of PC and operating system, including a Windows version that had been released only 18 hours before. I've fixed PCs in Arabic, Korean, Russian, and Mandarin, - even though I don't speak any of those languages or read the alphabets, it just took a little longer than it would have taken me on an English Keyboard or a version I was familiar with.

My point being, an experienced user can figure out most interfaces, especially when it is made for them to use easily. It just takes a little time. and when people are trained on one system, and have the muscle memory set to do a series of tasks quickly, those skills will not translate to another interface.

Theemile wrote:My point being, an experienced user can figure out most interfaces, especially when it is made for them to use easily. It just takes a little time. and when people are trained on one system, and have the muscle memory set to do a series of tasks quickly, those skills will not translate to another interface.

Yep, and we've seen what happens when that sort of skill level is applied in Honorverse combat. Remember the Masadans, and how they could only operate Saladin because they had its expert systems take over, which resulted in them getting nukes in their face? Now, of course the Masadan crews were intentionally undertrained and generally out of their depth; we also see what happens when professional crews operate unfamiliar equipment to much greater effect in AoV, but there, we also have Honor's post-battle analysis telling us that she had to plan around the fact that her crews were absolutely unable to fight a regular battle due to lack of equipment and proficiency with the equipment that they had.

Somtaaw wrote:Sure, but kzt likes to try and suggest you couldn't even operate someone else's ship at all. Textev proves that you can operate the fusion cores, helm, astrogation and at the very least, extremely limited tactical on virtually everybody's ships.

Huh? I'm the guy who wants to give SLN SDs to 4th and 5th rate powers.

kzt wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:Sure, but kzt likes to try and suggest you couldn't even operate someone else's ship at all. Textev proves that you can operate the fusion cores, helm, astrogation and at the very least, extremely limited tactical on virtually everybody's ships.

Huh? I'm the guy who wants to give SLN SDs to 4th and 5th rate powers.

Someone I used to argue with regularly about how giving SLN SD's to untrained navies would leave them unable to even turn them on, let alone fly them. Could have sworn it was you, but I apologize then I must be thinking of someone else.

Although I think those white elephants would be better for Talbott, 4th or 5th rate navies are probably low 1 to 3 system "nations" at best, so low manpower.

Talbott Quadrantt has what, 12 systems maybe as high as 17? Manticoran Silesia would also be a good choice (eventually), when they can be trusted to man their own hardware. As far as us readers know, they're still trying to convince the bought-off Governor's its not going to be business as usual, so handing them even SLN SD's would be ships go in, "we have no memory of those ships existing" might come back.

Going back to earlier times in the Manticore Ascending series why not.........

                                    Auction

Various lots of used warships, most in running order but in need of TLC, some as scrappers for parts only.

Apply for prospectus

The E wrote:You're still convinced that it is somehow possible for Manticore in its current state to take a ship built to one design paradigm and rebuild it into something completely different, or that doing so is in any way a practical solution to an actual problem Manticore currently has?

And, again, why does Manticore have to do it, Haven and Andies certainly have available facilities, and retired space-farers who can serve as skeleton crews to get them there.

Somtaaw wrote:... you first must get through the superdreadnought armor...

Why, does everyone seem to have the same misconception that these ships are just a giant armored egg, with yard-thick armor ALL-AROUND the entire hull? the armor consists of a few slabs concentrated on the "sides" and ends of the hammer-heads - they have no armor on top or bottom (as specified numerous times) and even the sides and ends have section that are unarmored, such as the shuttle bay entrances and gun ports. It would just be idiotic to try to 'pull things out' through the section that has armor, it would be like trying to take a couch out of your house and saying "well I guess we'll just have to cut a hole in this brick wall" - you have a door. large stuff would be removed through the top/bottom and small stuff through the bays.

Somtaaw wrote:So the best case scenario for the Solly SD's is pretty much handing them over, wholesale, to Talbott Quadrant systems. If they manage to break one, oh well Manticoran has hundreds of them, and in the meantime it's even better than a simulator for hands-on training, and familiarization work. Which all TQ need before they get sent off to Saganami Island for real naval training.

Solly SD's might not be perfect, but they'd supply actual hands on stuff, that no simulator training will ever be able to compete with.

quite right, and if a few FF BC squadrons come by, see a couple a' scientist puttering around, loose their nerve and quietly leave, well so much the better.

Theemile wrote:I've fixed PCs in Arabic, Korean, Russian, and Mandarin, - even though I don't speak any of those languages or read the alphabets, it just took a little longer than it would have taken me on an English Keyboard or a version I was familiar with...

Right, and the Solie SDs aren't in Arabic, they are in 'Common English' just like Manty SDs. As I've understood it, both sides use the 'common' language of English or a variant of it.