POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"

Theisman's action can be thought of in 2 ways:

1 It was part of a successful coup against the CPS regime.

2 It was the first action of the civil war between the CPS supporters and those who wanted to restore the Old Republic.

In either case Theisman is guilty only of abuse of Human Rights, in that he killed OS-J without recourse to due process. That said, OS-J was so guilty of abuse of Human Rights himself that IMHO he deserved all he got, due process or not.

There is this legal thingy called self defence which I imagine applies here. When ones life is in danger, one can legally get away with doing quite a lot to the attacker, up to and including killing and kicking when he/she is already clearly down. It's quite well established that this implies no breach of human rights of the attacker.

aairfccha wrote:I think we should let this thread die. cthia is either trolling or actually is a legalistic zombie. From experience neither option is really open to arguments.

Cthia does not troll. There are way too many subjects of worth to discuss than to have to resort to trolling. Whatever the hell trolling is.

Of course you are aware that if you find the premise of the thread unpalatable, unsettling, silly or too cerebral for you too discuss, you can simply steer clear. You are not under any Malign mind control. Are you?

Don't blink if you are. LOL

I wasn't aware there were two... two... two Duckks in the pond.

Silverwall wrote:

cthia wrote:Unacceptable. When it comes to the charge and punishment of murder or treason. Treason and murder. You must be certain...

Of the charge. Of the punishment.

Quick question... Who exactly did he commit treaon against?

If the answer is OSJ and the committee surely the fact that they won the coup makes it irrelevant. No bunch or revolutionaries or plotters who successfully change the govt on a level like managed here are ever charged with treason. Instead like Ataturk they are usually considered the founder of the new nation.

****** *

Coup d'états are illegal.

Assassination cannot exist without an ass-in-nation. Don't be the second ass.

Pulled that one out of my ass.

It was committed against the existing government at that time. Such as it were.

Many a person has felt and will continue to feel that the current government's most powerful political figure needs to die. That is freedom of opinion. Therein must be where that kind of thinking ends. Wishing someone were dead is not as acceptable as killing them. Unless...

I will not condone a murderer who sits in office.
But I shall condone a would be murderer of that office.

Although you and I both know there was something altruistic in Theisman's motives and at Theisman's core, that fact does not give license to kill.

It is ironic, because I imagine that if known, treecats would be discussing Theisman's actions within their species to be the one action most like treecat behavior.

When Saint-Just was shot. It shocked him. He was ranting on about his certainty in beating another trial. He never envisioned he'd be murdered.

"You ain't got the balls. Because that would make you like me, savage. And you ain't got the balls or the will to be savage. It ain't you. It ain't inside of you."

Oscar counted on the fact that Theisman is a stand up guy. Decent. Stalwart. Incapable of going bankrupt in morals, scruples and values, like himself.

"And that's how the Wess was won."

"West? You can't even spell West?"

"W-e-s-s is how you spell it, Sir. You named your son W-e-s-s Parker."

"Either I spelled Wess right? Or you spelled Wess wrong? Which is it sir?"

.

DJMacdonald wrote:

cthia wrote:Why hasn't Thomas Theisman been arrested for murder and treason, treason and murder?

Can the ends be justified by these means?

Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason. -John Harrington

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I think your post could have concluded the evening's festivities.

Indeed, why?

Or we risk opening ourselves up to slitting a man's throat while he naps on the beach. While he's on a cell phone behind a curtain. While he plays catch with his one-year-old son in the park. We cannot allow ourselves to be the judge, jury and executioner -- harkening back to the time of the Old West. The history books taught us that we won the West. Didn't we? It is no longer prudent or acceptable to live by such savage rules.

We simply cannot relegate murder and treason, treason and murder to history's dustbin of arbitrary concepts.

A government's legitimacy is derived from the support of its people. Oscar St. Just had no legitimacy. First, for of his role in the Harris Assassination. And second, for his ever tightening tyrannical grip on the people following McQueen's rebellion. So no one really cares what Theisman did to St. Just, because Theisman has done far more good than harm to the Republic. Most everyone would just shrug their shoulders, mutter something about "extenuating circumstances" or whatever, and happily continue on.

Duckk wrote:A government's legitimacy is derived from the support of its people. Oscar St. Just had no legitimacy. First, for of his role in the Harris Assassination. And second, for his ever tightening tyrannical grip on the people following McQueen's rebellion. So no one really cares what Theisman did to St. Just, because Theisman has done far more good than harm to the Republic. Most everyone would just shrug their shoulders, mutter something about "extenuating circumstances" or whatever, and happily continue on.

Duckk. I must acknowledge such a salient post. Your thinking is probably part and parcel to the wind beneath most everyone's wings on this issue. Several other posts are similar in concept...

BUT!

Murder is murder. Treason is treason. Most every one here in the thread agrees with your sentiment. So do I. With the sole exception of dismissing the crime and sweeping it under the rug. No statue of limitations on the crimes means they'll remain under the rug as crimes eons into history.

Since we all agree that Theisman should be - not pardoned, but - absolved of either crime should be more of a reason to kick it to the courts whose sole purpose is to decide such things. And have faith that justice will be served.

As it stands, The New Republic got off on the wrong foot of murder and treason. Treason and murder.

It is a very calamitous foot to build the old sentimental Republic of which they all had long yearned.

cthia wrote:Why hasn't Thomas Theisman been arrested for murder and treason, treason and murder?

Can the ends be justified by these means?

Killing OSJ was treason against the Peep's and since killing OSJ ended the Peep regime, it can' really be treason since the Peeps no longer exist to try TT for treason.

Killing OSJ was arguably an act of civil war vs the Peep government, so would not be murder. Now you could say that OSJ was captured and killing the prisoner is murder. But you also have the case of TT is now the head of the new government by right of conquest and executed his duty as the head of government to dispense justice for OSJs crimes against the people.

TT then put Pritchart in charge as acting president while he restored the old constitution. Since the old constitution was not in force yet, still can't try him for murder under those rules. TT was the government at that point, so his execution of OSJ would be justified.

BTW, when did Pritchart become President of part of the North American continent of Old Earth? She would be POTROH, President of the Republic of Haven. Which sounds like something Scooby would say.

I'm suddenly interested in what the ramblings and musings regarding the coup on the Manty side of the junction had to say about it. I seem to recall textev supplying some ramblings out of the mouths of Manties. I can't imagine the Manties feeling a loss in losing Saint-not-so-just, but interested just the same.

Hmm, is Elizabeth aware of the illegal usurping of powers?

She did say a leopard never changes its spots. Spots of assassination.

Kizarvexis wrote:

cthia wrote:Why hasn't Thomas Theisman been arrested for murder and treason, treason and murder?

Can the ends be justified by these means?

Killing OSJ was treason against the Peep's and since killing OSJ ended the Peep regime, it can' really be treason since the Peeps no longer exist to try TT for treason.

Killing OSJ was arguably an act of civil war vs the Peep government, so would not be murder. Now you could say that OSJ was captured and killing the prisoner is murder. But you also have the case of TT is now the head of the new government by right of conquest and executed his duty as the head of government to dispense justice for OSJs crimes against the people.

TT then put Pritchart in charge as acting president while he restored the old constitution. Since the old constitution was not in force yet, still can't try him for murder under those rules. TT was the government at that point, so his execution of OSJ would be justified.

BTW, when did Pritchart become President of part of the North American continent of Old Earth? She would be POTROH, President of the Republic of Haven. Which sounds like something Scooby would say.

My bold to call attention.

It was meant to break the ice as a harmless and humorous rib at our current POTUS exclaiming that Clinton should be jailed.