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POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"

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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by saber964   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:04 pm

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cthia wrote:If someone in the political arena despises Pritchard they may have enough legal precedence to demand Pritchard be removed and Theisman jailed.

Pritchart is the Hereditary President of the People's Republic of Haven.

An application of the slayer rule might easily be applied by some lawyer worth his weight in stolen bearer bonds.



Nope, the Republic of Haven has no hereditary head of state. My guess is Pritchard will be standing for reelection in 1925 PD. Which IMHO she will walk away with along the lines of President Ramirez of San Martin.

Here's a question why doesn't the Republic of Haven have a Vice President?
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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by cthia   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:17 pm

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saber964 wrote:
cthia wrote:If someone in the political arena despises Pritchard they may have enough legal precedence to demand Pritchard be removed and Theisman jailed.

Pritchart is the Hereditary President of the People's Republic of Haven.

An application of the slayer rule might easily be applied by some lawyer worth his weight in stolen bearer bonds.



Nope, the Republic of Haven has no hereditary head of state. My guess is Pritchard will be standing for reelection in 1925 PD. Which IMHO she will walk away with along the lines of President Ramirez of San Martin.

Here's a question why doesn't the Republic of Haven have a Vice President?
Damn, so much for my slayer rule.

No Vice President, because the Presidents have cornered the market on all of the vices. LOL

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by cthia   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:22 pm

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If Theisman had been a stand up guy, he would have done the right thing and surrendered to Eloise. She then could have pardoned him later.

On second thought, that wouldn't have worked. You simply cannot open a can of worms by pardoning even a single traitor. It is why Alfredo Yu and company are forever Grayson bound.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by Theemile   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:04 pm

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cthia wrote:If Theisman had been a stand up guy, he would have done the right thing and surrendered to Eloise. She then could have pardoned him later.

On second thought, that wouldn't have worked. You simply cannot open a can of worms by pardoning even a single traitor. It is why Alfredo Yu and company are forever Grayson bound.


Ummm... just who the [redacted] was Eloise the night of OSJ'S mortal departure? She was just another fleet commisar. She stood there with 2nd fleet waiting to be shoot by other SS fleet units. She was a nobody, who was best known as a OSJ yes-woman and one of the last Aprilist terrorists.

By the night of OSJ'S death, there was no one else left in charge. The Committee of Public Safety? All the members of the Committee who could take charge were already dead, as were their replacements, and their replacements. The only people left on the committee were beauracrats who knew to keep their heads down so they stayed attached to their shoulders.

By putting a bullet in OSJ'S head, Tom cut the last head from the hydra, leaving the entire government up for grabs by whoever had the will and ferocity to seize it.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by Theemile   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:10 pm

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Theemile wrote:
cthia wrote:If Theisman had been a stand up guy, he would have done the right thing and surrendered to Eloise. She then could have pardoned him later.

On second thought, that wouldn't have worked. You simply cannot open a can of worms by pardoning even a single traitor. It is why Alfredo Yu and company are forever Grayson bound.


Ummm... just who the [redacted] was Eloise the night of OSJ'S mortal departure? She was just another fleet commisar. She stood there with 2nd fleet waiting to be shoot by other SS fleet units. She was a nobody, who was best known as a OSJ yes-woman and one of the last Aprilist terrorists.

By the night of OSJ'S death, there was no one else left in charge. The Committee of Public Safety? All the members of the Committee who could take charge were already dead, as were their replacements, and their replacements. The only people left on the committee were beauracrats who knew to keep their heads down so they stayed attached to their shoulders.

By putting a bullet in OSJ'S head, Tom cut the last head from the hydra, leaving the entire government up for grabs by whoever had the will and ferocity to seize it.


Eloise became president because Tom put her there. And initially, until the constitution was restored and she was elected President by popular vote, she held the position because of Theisman's Will and Ferocity. Putting her in place and turning himself over to her would have amounted to mothing, because she lacked legimiticy without his power.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by cthia   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:25 pm

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Theemile wrote:
cthia wrote:If Theisman had been a stand up guy, he would have done the right thing and surrendered to Eloise. She then could have pardoned him later.

On second thought, that wouldn't have worked. You simply cannot open a can of worms by pardoning even a single traitor. It is why Alfredo Yu and company are forever Grayson bound.


Ummm... just who the [redacted] was Eloise the night of OSJ'S mortal departure? She was just another fleet commisar. She stood there with 2nd fleet waiting to be shoot by other SS fleet units. She was a nobody, who was best known as a OSJ yes-woman and one of the last Aprilist terrorists.

By the night of OSJ'S death, there was no one else left in charge. The Committee of Public Safety? All the members of the Committee who could take charge were already dead, as were their replacements, and their replacements. The only people left on the committee were beauracrats who knew to keep their heads down so they stayed attached to their shoulders.

By putting a bullet in OSJ'S head, Tom cut the last head from the hydra, leaving the entire government up for grabs by whoever had the will and ferocity to seize it.


I like the raw emotion in your post and its delivery. Really, I like reliving those very emotional "new beginnings" of Haven.

However, none of what you said absolves Eloise of her duty as newly elected president. Murder has no statue of limitations. Nor does treason. No one can be held above the law—lest lawlessness. Or you are no better than the lawless you replace.

It was a very patriotic thing what Theisman did, no doubt. It should have been a very personal, sacrificial gesture made of a sacrificial lamb. One of the last remaining virtuous lambs the navy had. Nevertheless, a premeditated sacrificial gesture is what it should have been, premeditatedly. Sheep, he was. Ultimately sacrificial?—should have been a matter for the courts to decide.

He may have felt it his duty. Though what happens when some idiot feels the same way regarding Eloise? Or the next? Or the next?

Now that I sit upon the throne, I must do what the throne condones.


Debating both sides of a coin can be a copper-plated Ransom.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by Silverwall   » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:50 am

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There is a very simple reason he was never arrested. OSJ was turning into a paranoid stalinist lunitic. He was about to purge most of the governemtn and the Navy so any action needed to take him out is justified in the specifics of the time.

It can also be argued from history that killing the figurehead that people can rally around it a very wise move. This is why the Romanovs were exected as weas Nikolai Caescue in Romania and why Osama Bin Laden was burried at sea. When you go to change a reigeme by force you need to remove anything that could generate loyalty to the overthrown faction.

Finally given all the information at hand and well known to Theiesman it is easy enough to justify the execution based on his known actions and crimes. Spcifically 2 million+ civilian deaths when he nuked the Octagon during the previous coup attempt. This was an action that makes it far to easy to justify any action up to and including executing him as you do not know what else he may have hidden away in case of emergancy.

Finally the middle of a successful Coup is not somewhere that is usually very susceptable to the application of laws standing either before or after the Coup.
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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by cthia   » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:49 am

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robert132 wrote:
cthia wrote:Why hasn't Thomas Theisman been arrested for murder and treason, treason and murder?


Because he won?

Can the ends be justified by these means?


I guess so.
My bold to call attention.

Unacceptable. When it comes to the charge and punishment of murder or treason. Treason and murder. You must be certain...

Of the charge. Of the punishment.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by Silverwall   » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:42 am

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cthia wrote:Unacceptable. When it comes to the charge and punishment of murder or treason. Treason and murder. You must be certain...

Of the charge. Of the punishment.


Quick question... Who exactly did he commit treaon against?

If the answer is OSJ and the committee surely the fact that they won the coup makes it irrelevant. No bunch or revolutionaries or plotters who successfully change the govt on a level like managed here are ever charged with treason. Instead like Ataturk they are usually considered the founder of the new nation.
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Re: POTUS says "Theisman should be jailed!"
Post by aairfccha   » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:13 am

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I think we should let this thread die. cthia is either trolling or actually is a legalistic zombie. From experience neither option is really open to arguments.
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