THE C R U S H E R

Jonathan_S wrote:

Theemile wrote:While the RMN's "super LACS" probably won't be on the export list anytime soon, The 1st generation Cimeterres may be. They, like classical LACS, used a fusion reactor and mostly off the shelf parts, while following the minimalist doctrine the RMN used designing their super LACs to make them a dedicated warfighter, with little focus on maintenance (99% of maintenance is done in the LAC base.) While the end product was far inferior to the RMN's version, the "off the shelf" design is far superior to the ordinary LAC classes, and with the correct doctrine, deadly to smaller starships.

If you were to pull the advanced compensator and FTL hardware, those fist gen Havenite super LACS would fine export versions.

Though Haven did something unnatural (for classic LACs) to get the acceleration as high as they did. Remember that House of Steel says the LAC's Honor took to Silesia aboard Wayfairer were the first LACs with a strong enough wedge to fully utilize the inertial compensator tech. Prior LACs all had lower accelerations that even enormous super dreadnoughts.

I don't know if Haven independently invented some rough equivalent of Manticore's Beta Squared nodes, or if they build Alpha nodes with the sail tuner hardware omitted, or just flat out stuck full-up Alpha nodes on them.

Those later 2 options would really squeeze the internal space available for weapons, engineering, and crew compared to Manticoran designs; even moreso that the fusion reactor already does.


If Haven had something like Beta Squared nodes they might put even the original generation Cimeterres on a export controlled list...

Don't forget that the Cimmeterre is 26 Ktons if Tom Pope told us correctly. So it is possible that it did include Alpha nodes in it, since a lot of the Shrike's 21 Ktons was the massive BC spinal graser.

But if it is a special tech - export may be out the door.

It appears the Crusher may not have been the only alleged fudging going on in Young's behalf.

What qualifications did he have to be given Warlock and appointed Senior Officer in the Basilisk System anyway? Textev fails to list a single ship he commanded other than Warlock.

Simply put, the North Hollow Files were the unalleged wind beneath his wings.

In fact, I find this statement "highly suspicious!"

from Lieutenant (JG) to Commander - period not described in novels

How 'bout the probability that there was NOTHING to describe. It was padded! If he had commanded something else, word of his phucking something up would have made it on his permanent record. Incompetence broadcasts itself.

wiki wrote:In 1895 PD, Young was placed on the Captain's List, but after becoming a Captain, his superiors were not impressed with him. Admiral James Bowie Webster, in private conversation with Admiral Hamish Alexander, succinctly described Young as "an arrogant, over-sexed, incompetent, bigoted snot," and freely admitted that Earl North Hollow's influence with the Conservative Association was the sole reason why Webster hadn't relieved his son of duty long ago.
In 1899 PD, as commanding officer of HMS Warlock, he was assigned to the RMN picket station in the Basilisk System. In 1900 PD, he authorized the Havenite Q-ship PMSS Sirius to pass through customs without fully checking the ship's manifest or cargo.

Service record
Promotions
⦁ Ensign (circa 1879 PD)
⦁ from Lieutenant (JG) to Commander - period not described in novels
⦁ Captain (JG) (before 1895 PD)
⦁ Captain (SG) (1895 PD)
⦁ acting Commodore⦁ [1] (1905 PD)
Dishonorably discharged in 1905 PD.

Posts
⦁ Cadet, Royal Manticoran Naval Academy, Saganami Island - circa 1873 PD
⦁ Midshipman - circa 1877 PD
⦁ Student, Commanding Officer's Course, Royal Manticoran Naval Academy, Saganami Island
⦁ Student, Advanced Tactical Course - before 1899 PD
⦁ Commanding Officer, HMS Warlock (CA-277) - before 1899 PD - 1905 PD (HH1-HH3)
⦁ Senior Officer, RMN Basilisk Station 1899 PD - 1901 PD (HH1)
⦁ Commanding Officer of a division of ⦁ Cruiser Squadron 17⦁ [2] - 1905 PD (HH3)
⦁ acting Commanding Officer, Cruiser Squadron 17 - 1905 PD - during first battle of Hancock (HH3)

much as i hate to say anything that gives young any credit, the same could be said of Honor.

After her promotion to acting Lt (JG) in Midshipwoman Harringotn we know almost nothing of her career before her xo stint on HMS Broadsword, aside that there was some accident on HMS Manticore and Honor saved a couple of ratings. I believe she was Tac officer and a Lt but details are thin.

also we have no info of how long after that XO tour before she made commander and was given command of Hawkwing. we do know prior to Hawkwing she has command of an LAC but where that was in relation to her time on Broadsword is unclear.

Not to defend Young, but if nothing goes wrong or nothing truely out of the ordinary happens, his incompetence isn't likely to show too much.
He could easily stay at a level that allows cronyism to promote him.

It was when the shit hit the air recirculator that he really fell apart.

I just like the idea that he promoted into the Warlock's captain's shoes in the field and North Hollow made it stick.
(Time wise 1895 would probably fit for him to be a cruiser XO too)

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Annachie wrote:Not to defend Young, but if nothing goes wrong or nothing truely out of the ordinary happens, his incompetence isn't likely to show too much.
He could easily stay at a level that allows cronyism to promote him.

It was when the shit hit the air recirculator that he really fell apart.

I just like the idea that he promoted into the Warlock's captain's shoes in the field and North Hollow made it stick.
(Time wise 1895 would probably fit for him to be a cruiser XO too)

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In peace time incompetence can be papered over and covered by cronyism but in wartime. Flaws can be magnified and amplified to weakness and inability to become liabilities. At the start of WWII the average age of destroyer and submarine commanders was 36 and 37 respectively but as the war progressed. The stresses and strains of combat began to tell. By late 1944 the average age dropped by a decade or more in some rare cases.

As long as we're talking about war game simulations, I happened to notice this:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/ ... play-them/

saber964 wrote:

Annachie wrote:Not to defend Young, but if nothing goes wrong or nothing truely out of the ordinary happens, his incompetence isn't likely to show too much.
He could easily stay at a level that allows cronyism to promote him.

It was when the shit hit the air recirculator that he really fell apart.

I just like the idea that he promoted into the Warlock's captain's shoes in the field and North Hollow made it stick.
(Time wise 1895 would probably fit for him to be a cruiser XO too)

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In peace time incompetence can be papered over and covered by cronyism but in wartime. Flaws can be magnified and amplified to weakness and inability to become liabilities. At the start of WWII the average age of destroyer and submarine commanders was 36 and 37 respectively but as the war progressed. The stresses and strains of combat began to tell. By late 1944 the average age dropped by a decade or more in some rare cases.

I yield to both of your superior logic. Certainly in time of peace, even the fire from the biggest phuckup one can ignite can easily be doused. And Young's early career seems to consist of basking in orbit and accosting women from groundside. Certainly after arriving in the Basilisk System.

What tricked me was the wiki...

wiki wrote:In 1895 PD, Young was placed on the Captain's List, but after becoming a Captain, his superiors were not impressed with him.  Admiral James Bowie Webster, in private conversation with Admiral Hamish Alexander, succinctly described Young as "an arrogant, over-sexed, incompetent, bigoted snot," and freely admitted that Earl North Hollow's influence with the Conservative Association was the sole reason why Webster hadn't relieved his son of duty long ago.

"Long ago" is rather vague. But where did Young earn such high acclaim (LOL) that Webster would have relieved him long ago had it not been for those damn files?

Before his incompetence in the Basilisk System, it is obvious he had already committed some career form of hari phucking kari!

cthia wrote:Before his incompetence in the Basilisk System, it is obvious he had already committed some career form of hari phucking kari!

Well he'd displeased somebody to get stuck out at Basilisk Station in the first place. At for at least most of a year.

On Basilisk Station wrote:And so Basilisk Station had become the punishment station of the Royal Manticoran Navy. Its dumping ground. The place it sent its worst incompetents and those who had incurred Their Lordships' displeasure.

On Basilisk Station wrote:Half-pay was supposed to provide a reserve of experienced officers against future need by retaining those surplus to the service's current requirements; in practice, it was used to put fumble-fingered idiots too important to dismiss from the Queen's service where they could do no harm. Obviously Young hadn't gotten himself into that category—yet—but the fact that he'd been senior officer in Basilisk for almost a T-year now seemed a pretty clear hint someone at the Admiralty was less than thrilled with his performance.

I'd guess in fact that he might have been assigned there longer than that almost T-year but during the early part a ship with someone senior to him was also on the shit list there; and Young only became senior officer when their purgatory ended and they were allowed to go elsewhere leaving Warlock alone. (Well, or possibly with at least one even more junior captain's ship as well)

Because remember Basilisk Station doesn't actually have a proper Station command (at least not at this point); instead "thanks to the mish-mash we've actually got in Basilisk, where there's no formally specified command area at all, Young's primary responsibility was to act as captain of his own heavy cruiser. It was only the fact that he was the senior RMN officer present that made him the picket commander."

So in all likelihood nobody decided he was qualified to run the Basilisk Picket - he just ended up senior (or possibly only) Captain standing almost a T-year before Fearless got sent there. We know by the time Honor showed up he was commanding the single ship assigned there - we just don't know if during that almost T-year if there were ever any ships with more junior captains assigned or if it was a solo show the whole time.
Anyway my point was likely nobody even made a deliberate decision that at least he was competent enough to be in charge of the RMN's purgatory - he just ended up stuck there long enough to get picket command by default.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Before his incompetence in the Basilisk System, it is obvious he had already committed some career form of hari phucking kari!

Well he'd displeased somebody to get stuck out at Basilisk Station in the first place. At for at least most of a year.

On Basilisk Station wrote:And so Basilisk Station had become the punishment station of the Royal Manticoran Navy. Its dumping ground. The place it sent its worst incompetents and those who had incurred Their Lordships' displeasure.

On Basilisk Station wrote:Half-pay was supposed to provide a reserve of experienced officers against future need by retaining those surplus to the service's current requirements; in practice, it was used to put fumble-fingered idiots too important to dismiss from the Queen's service where they could do no harm. Obviously Young hadn't gotten himself into that category—yet—but the fact that he'd been senior officer in Basilisk for almost a T-year now seemed a pretty clear hint someone at the Admiralty was less than thrilled with his performance.

I'd guess in fact that he might have been assigned there longer than that almost T-year but during the early part a ship with someone senior to him was also on the shit list there; and Young only became senior officer when their purgatory ended and they were allowed to go elsewhere leaving Warlock alone. (Well, or possibly with at least one even more junior captain's ship as well)

Because remember Basilisk Station doesn't actually have a proper Station command (at least not at this point); instead "thanks to the mish-mash we've actually got in Basilisk, where there's no formally specified command area at all, Young's primary responsibility was to act as captain of his own heavy cruiser. It was only the fact that he was the senior RMN officer present that made him the picket commander."

So in all likelihood nobody decided he was qualified to run the Basilisk Picket - he just ended up senior (or possibly only) Captain standing almost a T-year before Fearless got sent there. We know by the time Honor showed up he was commanding the single ship assigned there - we just don't know if during that almost T-year if there were ever any ships with more junior captains assigned or if it was a solo show the whole time.
Anyway my point was likely nobody even made a deliberate decision that at least he was competent enough to be in charge of the RMN's purgatory - he just ended up stuck there long enough to get picket command by default.

You're making too much sense. LOL

Or rather, in Young's case, not "too important to dismiss" inasmuch as too difficult to cut through the red tape of the NH-Files. LOL

SANTINO!

Somehow Young had to have relieved Elvis Santino! Can't you just hear the excitement of Dame Estelle at the fact that "Elvis has finally left the building!" LOL

Except for the niggling little detail that the drunken wiki had that little fact stricken from the record.

I still have a lingering suspicion that Young's incompetence would have broadcasted itself. Wherever he was sent he would have been meddling. He is superior than mere baseborns in his mind. For example, he probably didn't first begin thinking that he could rearrange system traffic better than the people who have been doing it forever, with his trip to Basilisk. I'm willing to bet he tried that schit elsewhere, and may have even gotten away with it with someone afraid of his clout by proxy. Which would have made its way back to the powers that be.

"He did what?! Arranged traffic how?!"

"Either you get this SOB out of my hair, or you've got my resignation! Which is included with this communiqué in advance!"


Edit: Grammar Police and punctuation.

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cthia wrote:Or rather, in Young's case, not "too important to dismiss" inasmuch as too difficult to cut through the red tape of the NH-Files. LOL

SANTINO!

Somehow Young had to have relieved Elvis Santino! Can't you just hear the excitement of Dame Estelle at the fact that "Elvis has finally left the building!" LOL

Except for the niggling little detail that the drunken wiki had that little fact stricken from the record.

I still have a lingering suspicion that Young's incompetence would have broadcasted itself. Wherever he was sent he would have been meddling. He's superior than mere baseborns in his mind. For example, he probably didn't first begin thinking that he could rearrange system traffic better than the people that have been doing it forever with his trip to Basilisk. I'm willing to bet he tried that schit elsewhere, and may even have gotten away with it from someone afraid of his clout by proxy. Which would have made its way back to the powers that be.

"He did what?! Arranged traffic how?!"

"Either you get this SOB out of my hair, or you've got my resignation! Which is included with this communiqué in advance!"

Santino would, I think, have been senior to Young; so Young wouldn't normally relieve him. But I love the idea that Santino might have been stuck in Basilisk when Warlock first arrived. (And then would have to have left no later than when Young defaulted to picket commander)