SLN Reserve

Sigs wrote:By maintenance I don't mean someone walking in with a wrench to maintain something, I mean the security of the ships as well as the support structure necessary to maintain physical control and ensure those ships don't develop legs and walk away from the SLN inventory.

Granted a large % of the reserve might be nothing but 400 or 500 year old museum but a decent % of the reserve would be considered modern or frontline equipment for most navies including those in the Haven sector as little as two or three decades before the war with the League. And for the league and most of the Galaxy it was modern frontline equipment up until Battle of Spindle.

If I remember correctly, the reserve also has a number of light units from BC to DD. They might be numerous but if they do exist they would be a pirate magnet if not protected properly.

What's the difference between a reserve depot with 100 or 1000 SDs? The latter isn't going to require ten times as many security guards and patrolling ready ships.

Every single reserve depot(Textev indicates there are seven total) is likely protected by at least 100 active BF SDs and a number of BF-operated screening units.

At least two thirds of the Reserve is badly out of date. Autocannon and such. I would say the percentage of "modern" SDs in the Reserve is no higher than 25%. Based on the ~2000 strong active fleet and the SLN's policy of putting half their newbuilds into Reserve immediately, I'd say there are no more than 4,000 Scientists total - the other ~6,000 are the Scientist's precedessors.

The Reserve does have some screening units, but very, very few. Frontier Fleet is meant to provide the screen and has a voracious appetite for working ships.

munroburton wrote:By maintenance I don't mean someone walking in with a wrench to maintain something, I mean the security of the ships as well as the support structure necessary to maintain physical control and ensure those ships don't develop legs and walk away from the SLN inventory.

Granted a large % of the reserve might be nothing but 400 or 500 year old museum but a decent % of the reserve would be considered modern or frontline equipment for most navies including those in the Haven sector as little as two or three decades before the war with the League. And for the league and most of the Galaxy it was modern frontline equipment up until Battle of Spindle.

If I remember correctly, the reserve also has a number of light units from BC to DD. They might be numerous but if they do exist they would be a pirate magnet if not protected properly.

"Maintenance" for a mothballed starship would probably be nothing more than periodic checks or perhaps even boardings to verify that what the instrumentation is telling you by remote is really true ... that the ship is still there and intact and ensure no one has removed any removable fittings like smaller antennas or whatever.

What's the difference between a reserve depot with 100 or 1000 SDs? The latter isn't going to require ten times as many security guards and patrolling ready ships.

Every single reserve depot(Textev indicates there are seven total) is likely protected by at least 100 active BF SDs and a number of BF-operated screening units.

At least two thirds of the Reserve is badly out of date. Autocannon and such. I would say the percentage of "modern" SDs in the Reserve is no higher than 25%. Based on the ~2000 strong active fleet and the SLN's policy of putting half their newbuilds into Reserve immediately, I'd say there are no more than 4,000 Scientists total - the other ~6,000 are the Scientist's precedessors.

The Reserve does have some screening units, but very, very few. Frontier Fleet is meant to provide the screen and has a voracious appetite for working ships.

I think it was mentioned somewhere that the SLN reserve fleets were co-located or in very close proximity to major fleet bases. This has the advantage of needing only one security force to secure both and keeps the ships near the yards that would (in theory at least) reactivate them at need.

We saw much the same in real life when the USN was maintaining large fleets of mothballed war and support ships. The big reserve fleets were usually either co-located with a major Naval Shipyard or moored within a very few miles. Not so much now because ALMOST ALL of the reserve fleet was disposed of during the 1990's through today.

1000 parked SD hulks (excuse me Mothballed starships require little more security than 100 and either fleet would easily be covered by the Base security forces.

munroburton wrote:
What's the difference between a reserve depot with 100 or 1000 SDs? The latter isn't going to require ten times as many security guards and patrolling ready ships.[/quotes]

No, not 10 times the protection but it would definitely need to be significantly larger. You need to safeguard them from theft as a whole unit or in parts, and you need to protect them from attack. The reserve is even more useless if it is not adequately protected. Those SD's were at one point some of the most powerful warships in the galaxy, leaving them with inadequate protection is mighty counterproductive.

munroburton wrote:Every single reserve depot(Textev indicates there are seven total) is likely protected by at least 100 active BF SDs and a number of BF-operated screening units.

Agreed, as they should be. This means that those ships would be counted in the maintenance and support of the reserve. Any ships, resources, personnel or infrastructure that is aimed at maintaining or protecting the reserve is not doing another job.

munroburton wrote:At least two thirds of the Reserve is badly out of date. Autocannon and such. I would say the percentage of "modern" SDs in the Reserve is no higher than 25%. Based on the ~2000 strong active fleet and the SLN's policy of putting half their newbuilds into Reserve immediately, I'd say there are no more than 4,000 Scientists total - the other ~6,000 are the Scientist's precedessors.

Doesn't matter if the reserve is out of date, they could be updated to be a frontline unit before the technological boom in the Haven Sector.

munroburton wrote:The Reserve does have some screening units, but very, very few. Frontier Fleet is meant to provide the screen and has a voracious appetite for working ships.

They may very well be few, but if they are easily misplaced then they become pirate magnates. Even if there are only 500 BC's and below in the reserve, if a pirate or a group of pirates come up with the idea to steal one or two? How does it look to the League in general if the organization that is meant to stop and prevent piracy keeps arming the pirates... and all of it by sheer accident not even intentionally.

It is trivially easy to park hundreds or thousands of ships around a moon, then declare it a secured military anchorage for e.g. 100,000km - absolutely no unauthorised entry into this sphere permitted. The RMN went to the extreme with Trevor's Star - they excluded civilian traffic from visiting the entire system at all(admittedly only during wartime).

To secure that perimeter requires the exact same number of satellites and sensor watch crews regardless of whether 10 or 1000 ships are orbiting within that bubble.

All it would take to monitor that 100,000km bubble around a 5,000km moon are eight active warships - four in an equatorial orbit and four in a polar orbit. Between them, they've got the entire zone blanketed with point-defense lasers - never mind anti-ship energy weapons and missiles.

Those eight can run active scans, monitoring space up to a million kilometres out from the moon. The SLN probably has large gravitic sensor arrays which covers the hyper limit for several light-months, taking care of long range security.

I don't see how the reserve incurs additional security costs. BF is still going to be there in that system with their yards, massive amounts of active forces dwarfing any other navy, with a ready screen near the manned wallers, also equipped with hundreds of small craft and thousands of marines. The reserve simply sits within that security umbrella, which already exists for other purposes.

No one's sneaking in and out of there with a freighter. The warships aren't hijackable without months of yard preparation.

munroburton wrote:It is trivially easy to park hundreds or thousands of ships around a moon, then declare it a secured military anchorage for e.g. 100,000km - absolutely no unauthorised entry into this sphere permitted. The RMN went to the extreme with Trevor's Star - they excluded civilian traffic from visiting the entire system at all(admittedly only during wartime).

To secure that perimeter requires the exact same number of satellites and sensor watch crews regardless of whether 10 or 1000 ships are orbiting within that bubble.

All it would take to monitor that 100,000km bubble around a 5,000km moon are eight active warships - four in an equatorial orbit and four in a polar orbit. Between them, they've got the entire zone blanketed with point-defense lasers - never mind anti-ship energy weapons and missiles.

Those eight can run active scans, monitoring space up to a million kilometres out from the moon. The SLN probably has large gravitic sensor arrays which covers the hyper limit for several light-months, taking care of long range security.

I don't see how the reserve incurs additional security costs. BF is still going to be there in that system with their yards, massive amounts of active forces dwarfing any other navy, with a ready screen near the manned wallers, also equipped with hundreds of small craft and thousands of marines. The reserve simply sits within that security umbrella, which already exists for other purposes.

No one's sneaking in and out of there with a freighter. The warships aren't hijackable without months of yard preparation.

The SLN puts value on the Reserve, as useless as it is there is value in it. Guarding 10,100 or 1000 SDs in the reserve required different levels of force. 100 SD's represent 1.25% of the reserve 1,000 on the other hand represent 12.5% of the reserve. The high concentration of ships in those reserve locations will require heavy escort supported by a local base. Having a dozen destroyers or cruisers guarding 10-12% of your helpless and defenceless wall seems ridiculous even by SLN standards.

The thing is, they may very well be left in a system with a yard which means that the system would require mutually supporting but separate forces to defend both objectives. If an enemy fleet sails in they have the option to attack the reserve units or the yard so you would need an organic force for each objective, one might be used to defend the other but each would require it's own defence.

And if the SLN has any forts, this is where I would expect them to be deployed. You have powerful and very valuable warships in one location unable to move quickly under their own power so you need a heavy picket. If the need should arise the forts can be deployed to support the shipyards or the shipyard picket could be deployed to support the reserve.


The whole point of defending the reserve is not only to monitor the area around them but to protect them in the event of an attack.

pnakasone wrote:

munroburton wrote:The presence of ex-SLN heavy cruisers at Tiberian and battlecruisers at Monica and Torch were presented as unprecedented. No one had heard of the SLN allowing such powerful hardware to be sold off.

A different explanation could be that was the first time some one caught them at it.

Wasn't part of the Final View of Edward Saganami's last mission to Silesia his report that powerful Solarian units were "unexpectedly" operating with the pirate forces, up to battlecruisers?

Fox2! wrote:Wasn't part of the Final View of Edward Saganami's last mission to Silesia his report that powerful Solarian units were "unexpectedly" operating with the pirate forces, up to battlecruisers?

Silesian Navy. The local government was in bed with the pirates, and decided to use navy units to wack him.

solly made units were involved in the upswing of piracy Sagnamni, not sure if anything was said about who crewed them but i doubt even the solly navy would work with actual pirates, was sent to crush.

though it is unclear if any of the ships involved in the final action against Nike were of Solly manufacture.

Shadow of Saganami, Chpater 1 wrote:"I beg to report," he continued, "that the forces under my command have engaged the enemy. Although I deeply regret that I must inform you of the loss of HMS Triumph and HMS Defiant in action against the piratical vessels based at Trautman's Star, I must also inform you that we were victorious. We have confirmed the destruction of thirteen hostile cruisers, light cruisers, and destroyers, and all basing infrastructure in the system. In addition, we have captured one destroyer, one light and two heavy cruisers, and two battlecruisers. Several of these units appear to have been of recent Solarian construction, with substantially heavier armaments than most 'pirates' carry.

Sigs wrote:The SLN puts value on the Reserve, as useless as it is there is value in it. Guarding 10,100 or 1000 SDs in the reserve required different levels of force. 100 SD's represent 1.25% of the reserve 1,000 on the other hand represent 12.5% of the reserve. The high concentration of ships in those reserve locations will require heavy escort supported by a local base. Having a dozen destroyers or cruisers guarding 10-12% of your helpless and defenceless wall seems ridiculous even by SLN standards.

The thing is, they may very well be left in a system with a yard which means that the system would require mutually supporting but separate forces to defend both objectives. If an enemy fleet sails in they have the option to attack the reserve units or the yard so you would need an organic force for each objective, one might be used to defend the other but each would require it's own defence.

And if the SLN has any forts, this is where I would expect them to be deployed. You have powerful and very valuable warships in one location unable to move quickly under their own power so you need a heavy picket. If the need should arise the forts can be deployed to support the shipyards or the shipyard picket could be deployed to support the reserve.


The whole point of defending the reserve is not only to monitor the area around them but to protect them in the event of an attack.

We don't know the SLN's exact defensive arrangements. I'll point out that two ready squadrons of BCs at each site secures it against 95% of possible attackers. If it's upgraded to two squadrons of SDs, the site was secure against all but a concentrated effort by one of the other top ten navies in the universe.

Why should the distance between the yard and the reserve be significant? If the SLN's yard complex is in orbit of the planet along with Battle Fleet's manned ships, then the Reserve units orbiting that planet's moon are still deeply within the planetary security umbrella.

Dauntless wrote:solly made units were involved in the upswing of piracy Sagnamni, not sure if anything was said about who crewed them but i doubt even the solly navy would work with actual pirates, was sent to crush.

though it is unclear if any of the ships involved in the final action against Nike were of Solly manufacture.

Shadow of Saganami, Chpater 1 wrote:"I beg to report," he continued, "that the forces under my command have engaged the enemy. Although I deeply regret that I must inform you of the loss of HMS Triumph and HMS Defiant in action against the piratical vessels based at Trautman's Star, I must also inform you that we were victorious. We have confirmed the destruction of thirteen hostile cruisers, light cruisers, and destroyers, and all basing infrastructure in the system. In addition, we have captured one destroyer, one light and two heavy cruisers, and two battlecruisers. Several of these units appear to have been of recent Solarian construction, with substantially heavier armaments than most 'pirates' carry.

It seems both Silensian and Solarians were in on it.

from HoS:

Unaware of Solarian involvement, Saganami, the hero of the Ranier War, was ordered to assemble a force for the purpose of proactive, search-and-destroy operations against pirates in the Silesian Sector. His operations were an unqualified success, destroying dozens of pirate ships and many bases before the Silesian government—with heavy technical support from Manpower—made a covert attempt to either destroy or discredit him. These efforts resulted in the Battle of Trautman’s Star and then in the Battle of Carson, in which Saganami and the entire crew of his flagship were lost in the successful defense of a convoy against overwhelming odds