THE C R U S H E R

Here's something to consider? We know that Young was in command of Warlock for at least 5 and pushing 6 years. What if Warlock was used as a dumping ground for (shall we say) like minded individuals and personal with more connections than brains.

saber964 wrote:Here's something to consider? We know that Young was in command of Warlock for at least 5 and pushing 6 years. What if Warlock was used as a dumping ground for (shall we say) like minded individuals and personal with more connections than brains.

I don't think Paul Tankersley comes into that category, but I suppose the admiralty had to assign some competent people to Warlock or it would have ended up as the equivalent of the GNS Francis

Iirc Tankersley family was big in ship building and such.

His family might have placed him there in the hopes of future connections with Young.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

That's not inconsistent with saber's idea - if Paul was there first, or assigned before Warlock was dumped in Basilisk, the ship wouldn't yet have become a dumping ground. And from the sound of things he was out of the ship before it was released from its 1901 refit.

George J. Smith wrote:

saber964 wrote:Here's something to consider? We know that Young was in command of Warlock for at least 5 and pushing 6 years. What if Warlock was used as a dumping ground for (shall we say) like minded individuals and personal with more connections than brains.

I don't think Paul Tankersley comes into that category, but I suppose the admiralty had to assign some competent people to Warlock or it would have ended up as the equivalent of the GNS Francis

kzt wrote:

saber964 wrote:Remember several treecats have attended various portions of RMNA;SI and ATC at one time or another.

It doesn't matter. They don't think like that.

kzt is right. They don't think like that...NOW. But the cats outlook on life is expanding, which is inevitable considering their interaction with humans. Their IQ on the sentient scale is on a par with humanity. It isn't that I think or accept that the cats lack the ability to understand and take part in human technology, just that in their world human abilities were never needed. I'm not willing to pull a Pavel Young and sign off on anything saying that the ability to understand human concepts such as our tech is beyond them. I think it may have been part of the long term thinking of Samantha, a Memory Singer, who was willing to leave her clan to "study abroad" in the human world. What, ultimately, do you suppose was behind Samantha's decision to make such a decision, a decision that threw her clan in social upheaval.

She had an extremely powerful mind-glow and was one of the extremely small group of treecats who felt the need for the human mind glow; she became the first memory singer to have acted upon that urge and form an adoption bond. She left the security of her clan, under considerable protest at the loss of a powerful memory singer, to contact humans.

David Weber wrote:All right, first a few words on memory singers. As I imagine you have already concluded from the short fiction which has been published, memory singers are extremely important to treecat clans. Their more obvious function is to serve as the repository of the collective wisdom and history of their species. The essential requirements to become a memory singer are an extremely strong mind voice, an ability to grasp of the nuances of other cats' mind glows with extreme acuity, an effectively "photographic memory," and the ability to project remembered mind voices and mind glows with the utmost fidelity. Normally, a very strong personality and what we might call "command presence" is bound up with the sort of mind and outlook which can satisfy the above qualifications, which further helps explain why senior memory singers are awarded so much weight when they confer with the other elders of a clan. In a very real sense, the treecats' history is truly a living entity, which moves from avatar to avatar as new generations of memory singers receive it from their predecessors and prepare to pass it on to their successors. Along the way, some of the more distant memory songs begin to lose their fine detail and resolution, and evens which do not make their way into memory songs at all are completely lost to the treecats. What this boils down to is that the portions of their history which they know have an intimacy and immediacy which no human can never match, but that there are much larger gaps in their knowledge of their history than is the case in post-oral tradition human societies.

There is also, however, an additional function of memory singers which in its own way is even more vital to the health and future development of the treecat community, and helps explain the reason why they are so intensely venerated and protected. The memory singers are not merely the repositories of history, but also the teachers of new knowledge.

I suppose that the fairest way to compare treecat intelligence to human intelligence is to say that the two are basically equivalent but function in quite different ways. Even the most intuitive human abilities pale beside the way that treecats process and interpret information. A treecat does not input, correlate, and evaluate data in the same way human does. They are far more likely to depend on their ability to perceive the emotion behind the thought (where humans are concerned; where other treecats are concerned, they perceive the thought itself, of course) and to form what a human might describe as a near-instant gestalt. This is one reason why it was so difficult for Climbs Quickly to reason his way through to an understanding of the bond which had formed between him and Stephanie Harrington. It was far outside the normal parameters of his species' experience, so he had no existing knowledge base to guide him, yet the fact that the telepathic channel was not available to him virtually shut down half of his normal information pathways and required him to approach the question on a deductive basis, which was not really comfortable fit for him or any other treecat.

In interpersonal relationships, treecats are vastly more sensitive, intuitive, and likely to comprehend intricacies and nuances than humans are, but for most of them (memory singers tend to be exceptions to this rule, but that is far from a universal case) their ability to handle those relationships is restricted to those whom they have actually met. In other words, they are masters of personal relationships, but beyond their own clans, they have a much poorer grasp of the sorts of collective relationships which make mass societies function, which helps explain why a race of telepaths and empaths has not evolved a societal matrix more complex than that of the extended clan.

The plain fact is that treecats are not exceptionally innovative, even in matters of purely social evolution. Once you step beyond the social arena (which, after all, is where they excel) they become even less innovative. As a rule, their first response to any new situation is to attempt to apply existing custom or solutions to it, and they become uneasy when they are unable to do so. When the humans first arrived on Sphinx as a permanent presence, the treecats recognized the potential danger which human technology posed to them and also that they themselves had nothing which might act as a counterweight to human tools and weapons if the situation turned ugly on them, and so they adopted the strategy of observation and concealment which lasted until Climbs Quickly met Stephanie Harrington. Their uneasiness over their inability to get a "handle" on human psychology and intentions (which was made infinitely worse for them by the fact that humans appeared to be mute race, as they were unable to "speak" in any way a treecat could understand) was also a major factor in their standoffish attitude. In addition, treecats -- because they are telempathic -- tend to be extremely consensual (by human standards) when it comes to choosing courses in action, which means that in potential threat situations the reaction of the species as a whole tends to err on the side of caution, as was demonstrated by the reaction of Climbs Quickly's clan elders once Stephanie spotted him. In addition, it usually takes something fairly extreme to cause treecats to alter an existing pattern of behavior. You might say that they rely very heavily on the concept of "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

Compared to humans, treecats -- although in most ways they possess something between 90 and 95 percent as "much" intelligence as humans -- produce perhaps 1/10 as many individuals, proportionately, who have what we might call innovating mindsets. Their intelligence also tends to lie within a narrower band then human intelligence, with comparatively few individuals who fall very far below or very far above the median. In short, treecats Leonardo da Vincis are very, very rare, and "village idiots" are equally rare. As individuals, treecats are very unlikely to make great leaps forward, but in the rare occurrences when a treecat possesses both the ability to innovate and what one might call "genius," the fact that he or she has on the rest of his species is far more profound than the effect a similar human could have on humanity as a whole. The reason for this is the existence of the memory singers. Literally anything a treecat can learn or conceptualize can be passed on in its entirety to any other treecat via a memory singer. It does not necessarily follow that every treecat who receives a concept or knowledge through a memory singer will be able to use it as effectively as any other treecat, because there are levels of ability in all things. But this does mean that when the rare treecat genius comes along, his or her accomplishments can be added to the intellectual armory of his clan -- and spread beyond his clan through the traditional interacting of memory singers -- far more rapidly and completely than would be possible in a human society. This is precisely what made Climbs Quickly and Sings Truly so extremely valuable to their clan and to their species as a whole. Sings Truly, in particular, was not simply an innovator of genius, but was also a memory singer in her own right, which both gave her very high prestige and made her particularly effective in spreading her innovations throughout all treecats. By the same token, Samantha -- who is very similar to her in both "intellectual stature" and inherent ability as a memory singer -- is perhaps even more important to her people than Sings Truly, even though she has never assumed the formal mantle of a memory singer.

There are certain areas in which treecats do not and probably never will equal human capabilities, just as humans will never be telepaths or (with a few significant exceptions) empaths -- or certainly never on a scale which will conceivably equaled the abilities of treecats. One major treecat "disability" which probably precludes their ever developing a high-tech society of their own, is a fundamental inability to grasp higher mathematics. It is significant that a society which has been around for thousands upon thousands of years still refers to numbers in terms of "hands of hands" and has never developed a written form of mathematics. Obviously, this has strong implications for all areas of advanced human technology. It is possible, that this inability will begin to ease if and when the treecats do completely internalize the concept of written language. It is also possible that sufficiently persistent humans will be able to teach a treecat someday to transcend the current limitations of his species, and if that happens, the existence of the memory singers means that it would constitute effectively a species-wide breakthrough. Of course, it is always possible that the treecats will never approach human levels of ability in math.

For the foreseeable future, certainly, treecats will continue to regard human technology much as they have for the past several centuries. They will probably learn to use certain human tools more effectively and confidently than is currently the case, and they will not be actively uncomfortable in the presence of humans' machines and tools, but they will regard those devices as being uniquely "two-leg" in nature. On the social front, treecats will almost certainly become much more deeply integrated into human society as a whole, using their empathic abilities and their intuitive grasp of complex personal interrelationships to make themselves invaluable in such professions as psychology, politics, dispute arbitration, "social services," the law, etc. The precise effect which this will have upon their social and political standing is, of course, something which I have no intention of telling you about at this time.

I will add just one more thing. The Ninth Amendment of the Constitution establishes treecats as the native sentient race of Sphinx, reserves just over one-third of the total planetary surface for their sole possession, and grants them the legal status of minor children under the direct protection of the Crown. It does not grant them citizenship in the Star Kingdom of Manticore, enfranchise them as voters, or in any other way contemplate their full integration into the human society of the Star Kingdom. This is not to say that such integration is absolutely ruled out by the Constitution, only that it is not guaranteed or provided for, and that it is quite likely that it would be necessary to further amend the Constitution in order to make treecats citizens or subjects of the Crown. It probably also would require a degree of planet-wide social integration which treecats have not yet attained in order to provide anything like a representative body of treecats empowered to speak for the race as a whole if they were invited to become subjects of Queen Elizabeth.

I personally consider the Memory Singers to be the brains of the species. They certainly have built-in cheat sheets. All Memory Singers are females anyway right? Go figure.

I think the limiting factor hindering the treecats from understanding human concepts is twofold:

1) Con: As individuals, treecats are very unlikely to make great leaps forward, but in the rare occurrences when a treecat possesses both the ability to innovate and what one might call "genius," the fact that he or she has on the rest of his species is far more profound than the effect a similar human could have on humanity as a whole. The reason for this is the existence of the memory singers. -David Weber

Pro: Then there is Samantha, who is the treecat equivalent of a genius, reminiscent of Sings Truly. Which underlines the previous thought of the underlining motives of Samantha.

2) Con: Deductive reasoning isn't a natural part of the treecat experience.

Pro: Which is not to say that they aren't capable of it. Learning sign language is a clear example of that.

3) Con: Their limited grasp of mathematics.

Pro: This is a very interesting fork in the road. As individuals, treecats aren't likely to make great leaps forward but in the rare occurrences when a treecat possesses both the ability to innovate and what one might call "genius," (Words of Weber wisdom) cues the fact that Samantha, who has this intelligent quotient decides to break with the clan. Samantha, who is responsible for bridging the communication gap between treecat and human via the human technology of sign language. IMHO, the key to the treecat species coming to understand technology would be the decision of the brightest mind voices such as Samantha to tackle the missive. It seems to me that that is exactly what is happening. First thing first - bridge the communication gap, or establish one rather. Tomorrow, more difficult things. And only after technology is assimilated and understood by a Memory Singer can it be disseminated throughout the treecat species.


4) Attributed to the human side of the equation, that of communication. A natural communication gap existing between teacher and student would not be conducive to learning. Especially if neither can speak the other's language. Sign language is the first step for treecats to became more "domesticated" and grasp human concepts. Honor fingered sign language as being instrumental for humans to understand the treecat world. Yet it cuts both ways, it is also instrumental for treecats to bridge the gap between human and treecat concepts. Technology is simply one of many concepts. It certainly won't happen overnight, no. But the impetus that is sign language is already emplaced and the motivation of a common enemy is undeniable.

IMHO, the fact that a treecat can learn sign language bespeaks that they can learn any human technology. I suspect that treecats' intelligence will one day rival humans if it doesn't already because the intelligence of the two species are already on a par and treecats have more to learn from humans than vice versa.

Perhaps one day God will have to scatter treecat language to the wind.

Treecats have a more efficient form of communication than our own, replete with images and the underlying emotion behind the thought, free from the mechanics and restraint of grammar. It is akin to sending the actual epiphany, whereby nothing is lost in translation. They eliminate the middle man that is grammar and its construct, if you will. Their method of communication carries with it a parallel channel. A supporting channel which intuitively augments the bandwidth in unimaginable ways. The treecats are pretty much receiving a first hand representation of what the communicator is trying to impart, and again not at the mercy of being lost in translation. If one particular story in the bible is true then I would imagine treecat "language" rivals the first language spoken by far - that was so efficient God had to scramble it to water down its effectiveness. The Treecats parallel channels are second nature to the species.

In a very real sense, the treecats' history is truly a living entity, which moves from avatar to avatar as new generations of memory singers receive it from their predecessors and prepare to pass it on to their successors. Along the way, some of the more distant memory songs begin to lose their fine detail and resolution, and evens which do not make their way into memory songs at all are completely lost to the treecats. What this boils down to is that the portions of their history which they know have an intimacy and immediacy which no human can never match, but that there are much larger gaps in their knowledge of their history than is the case in post-oral tradition human societies.

Treecat Intelligence II.



****** *


Aside:
Seems I've missed a lot. Two deaths in my family, elders who were married to each other died less than a week apart. Their love was like treecat love and one couldn't live without the other. Don't be sad, I am part Native American and we celebrate the passing of life and these two lived to be a ripe old age at 101 and 98.

This is really rather interesting and just as humorous...

In short, treecats Leonardo da Vincis are very, very rare, and "village idiots" are equally rare.

Which averages out to a species that is smarter than humans since they don't have any Santinos, Youngs or Janaceks pulling down their overall average.

cthia wrote:This is really rather interesting and just as humorous...

In short, treecats Leonardo da Vincis are very, very rare, and "village idiots" are equally rare.

Which averages out to a species that is smarter than humans since they don't have any Santinos, Youngs or Janaceks pulling down their overall average.

They are also very good at putting the right person in the right job.

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:It is interesting that Nimitz may have gone through all of the courses with Honor. It is also interesting that in some point in the future some lucky officer may find themselves matriculating through the course with the same bonded fortune as Honor, but with a Memory Singer instead. A Memory Singer would remember every single word spoken in every class and every situation. Talk about a personal tape recorder brought to class. Heck, you could send your treecat to sit in on class for you, in an emergency - if your telempathic skills have been intensified like Honor's or more so like the "tum te tum" the author is dangling before us regarding Raoul. Nonetheless, this is an exciting path that RFC can take with Raoul.

If Nimitz and the cats in general are allowed to accompany their persons, that is.

Unfortunately, Treecat numbers don't grow fast, but no doubt one of their items on the "soon to do list" is to understand Human technology and society better. They may assign memory singers with a small number of scouts and hunters to learn jobs and skills - and technology.

So it may be a couple years, but you may see a group of treecats attending lectures at the Island to add to the collective knowledge base.

However, one thing we do not know is how quickly a mind song can be relayed to another. Is it truly singing, where a group can indulge in the memory, in real time, or can it be instantly shared, either with an individual or a group? If it is a 1:1 timescale, relaying the entirety of someone's memory is not a very efficient way to transfer knowledge (Just like you can give a recipe in a single page of paper, but the YouTube video of the same procedure is 30 minutes long.) So in the modern day, memory singing may be a very inefficient way of teaching alone.

"They are far more likely to depend on their ability to perceive the emotion behind the thought (where humans are concerned; where other treecats are concerned, they perceive the thought itself, of course) and to form what a human might describe as a near-instant gestalt."

Also, it is called singing. In my absence at the function after the ceremonies, the festive activities commenced to celebrate the spiritual passing of our loved ones.

The younger kids were watching a Taylor Swift concert on one of the large outdoor televisions. A huge monstrosity. As a result, I CAN NOT GET THIS TAYLOR SWIFT SONG OUT OF MY HEAD!

What is it about songs that they get stuck in your head? If the Memory Singers are actually using some form of singing and it has the same effect on steroids, no wonder they remember it so easily! They simply cannot get it out of their head!

Please, make it stop!

First thing on the to do list is to throw out an apology, as the Donald should do, because I was raised correctly (an ode to my parents) - to all of you who are deserving, for having to deal with the exigencies of life. I humbly and genuinely apologize.

This is meant to be a recursive post - in future situations where the unsophisticated needs to be redressed I can just refer back to here. Idiots of an improperly educated feather pull down their pants and show their hapless backsides together. One post fits all.

The E wrote:Wow, now you're trying to psychoanalyze me.

Sometimes people wear the obvious on their sleeves. No need to waste a sofa.

Some things in life unavoidably have to be attended to. Some things should be attended to on the spot and not left unchecked, in hopes that they will straighten themselves out. Because some people do not have enough measure of class within them to spontaneously combust into something close enough to the semblance of sophistication. Some people are just plain socially inept. It is an error that Honor made regarding Young. I have made the same error on several occasions as well, for various reasons which include wanting to spare others in the forum from having to endure petty and mindless bickering. Rubs my impeccable upbringing the wrong way. Sometimes disrespect just has to be dealt with. A second apology tendered, as my impeccable upbringing demands.

cthia wrote:Have you not yet learned that the tone of my posts may match what I receive?

The E wrote:Have you not learned that the degree of ignorance your posts betray may have something to do with the reception they get?

You mean the disrespectful, childish and immature reception that I have received from two, at best three posters? Two or three is not representative enough of a sample to draw a conclusion supporting a general lack of sophistication, class, elegance, poise or savior faire throughout the forum. Because others do not fit into that mold and I won't allow you to unfairly place them there.

No E, it never crossed my mind. There are many in the forum that never pulled down their pants and showed their hapless backsides, because they have class and sophistication. Why should I think the reception of a few socially retarded denizens have anything to do with my ignorance? Again, your logic is bankrupt. Perhaps I might if my limited world view was as near to being incomplete as your own. However, it is not. I recognize it for what it is.

It is obvious to me that it has everything to do with a lack of proper upbringing and instruction and denotes a lack of something missing in your life. Your lack of sophistication does. not. move. me. I recognize it for what it is. My parents sent me abroad when I was 11-years-old against my naive will to ensure that I received a well rounded education.

"I want you to have a well rounded education. There are simply some things you cannot learn in a textbook - matters that are important in life. I promise that you'll thank me later."

Anyone with a functioning brain knows that she was right. Many people - specifically Americans but certainly not limited to - have a sick understanding of proper manners. It was woefully and shamefully highlighted by Donald Trump. Oh, the shame of it all.

Social etiquette and manners is something that you should have received at home. I won't assume that you did not receive that instruction, because that would unfairly reflect on your parents as taught to me by my own. Why should parents be held accountable for their misfits - when their in-depth instruction of morals, scruples and values simply fell in the void between two ears? As my parents warned me, it is exactly what happens. When some disgruntled citizen shoots up a school killing innocent children, the parents are blamed and are amongst the first to be interviewed because it is implied and easily thought that they did something wrong. Sometimes a bad seed is just a bad seed. All of the seeds in a bag are not going to germinate. And when some do, they are simply found to be weeds.

The E wrote:See, the difference between my posts and what you're doing here is that I am generally very careful to call out ideas as stupid, not the person having them.

That in itself is stupid. More of your arrogant mindless baseless disjointed logic. You should never refer to someone as stupid. You should never refer to someone's ideas as stupid. Unless without a shadow of a doubt you consider yourself the supreme authority on the subject. And if that is the case, you are both stupid and arrogant.

You've already shown your arrogance and disjointed logic in the abduction thread which is what this current crop of needling is all about that I am getting from you. You feel that I embarrassed you and your feelings were hurt. As a result, you've launched some mindless vendetta and it is obvious that you are now dedicated to following me around after some petty revenge for your own mindless logic and immaturity. What do you know, right on cue in another thread recently created before the ink even dries because you do not recognize a facetious statement in a post. Are you that uneducated? Really?

Stop it, you're really embarrassing yourself.

It is obvious. Your manners, arrogance and disjointed logic precedes you and that is what caused you harm in that thread. I didn't embarrass you, your hapless logic did that, along with your arrogance. And your blatant disrespect inevitably spurred your pain.

Simply because I called a heavy cruiser (CA) a (DL). Your disjointed and appalling logic follows you along into every thread and drags along behind it evidence of your lack of sophistication. You should thank me if the only social faux pas that I commit on the forum is to screw up the tech or to display my incomplete understanding of it. The kind of faux pas that you and those like you commit are felonious social crimes.

The E wrote:You, on the other hand, spend an inordinate amount of words on trying to call me immature;

I don't try and call you immature. I do call you immature and exuding a lack of sophistication and wielding a penchant for logic that you collected out of a Cracker Jack box. The inordinate amount of words is to help flesh it out to someone with an obvious lack of education. Some things need explaining in-depth for it to sink in.

I think you can guess why my days of not taking you seriously are not coming to an end soon.

There there. I know E. I know. Hoping that you, and those like you will ever grow out or your immaturity and begin to display some semblance of class is too much to expect. There simply is not enough of a measure of the right human ingredients to spontaneously combust and cause you some due measure of social process.

What is so sad and embarrassing for me as an American at your level of disrespect - (thank heavens it isn't an American this time. See? There is a God!) - is that they aren't even aware of their disrespect and lack of savior faire. Or worse, may not even care. Improper instruction makes the lot of you completely oblivious to it. Ignorance really is bliss.

E.g., and what you are referring to generally; your partner in crime who is just as socially hapless and bankrupt as yourself. I notice that you were there during that exchange as well.

lyonheart wrote:Regarding the absurdity of scaring off newbies, given their growth NTM the fact I've gone out of my way to welcome them and thank and praise them for their good if not brilliant ideas since I became one of the early members here, is just more evidence of trying to smear me on your part.

So that tired old pathetic retread/red herring/straw man argument is an obvious nonstarter to any veteran poster here, but you keep trotting it out.

Regarding your timid Romanian friends, I've met Romanians and they're not shy about sharing their opinions even when their knowledge of English isn't perfect.

When you brought this up the last time I extended another personal welcome to them as I have to all limited English posters since joining Baen's Bar over ten years ago; given the evident fans RFC has in Eastern Europe, their continued anonymity is most mysterious, especially given all the translation apps.

I don't know any poster here who'd make fun of obvious honest grammar or spelling errors, especially after introducing themselves; assuming the monitors would let them, so stop blaming the forum for their reticence.

Given the negative reaction of so many other posters, I think reducing your ignorant idea quotient would increase their respect for you, so please consider that advice.

lyonheart wrote:Lyonheart.

...When you brought this up the last time I extended another personal welcome to them as I have to all limited English posters since joining Baen's Bar over ten years ago; given the evident fans RFC has in Eastern Europe, their continued anonymity is most mysterious, especially given all the translation apps.

It. Isn't. Mysterious. At. All.

People like the two of you do not "scare off" newbies. There are simply people who want no part of your kind. Sophistication does not want to invite the unsophisticated within their sphere. And they simply view it as insane to invite themselves within yours. Or to accept invitation from one whose invitation itself is crass. My Romanian friends are professionals, most in the field of medicine. Doctors, surgeons, neurosurgeons, pediatricians, etc., etc., with websites of their own. They do not want to get into some mindless exchange with the likes of people like you and have it reflect poorly on them. And they won't risk it when there is absolutely no chance of a meaningful rapport.

This is amongst my earliest memories when first meeting my group of Romanian friends, when they were merely students...

"You don't act like an American."
"I do honey. I just act like one that has been raised properly."
Contagious smiles were seen hypering around the circle.


I am still a member of two social clubs in the U.S. At one time, I was a member of three. There was nothing better to do in my younger days than spend money and socialize. Life long meaningful contacts are made within these walls. Since I got married I cancelled membership of one of them because it is exclusively male. One of them, located in California I've been a member since the days of my first career in "Silicone" Valley where I made my fortune. I was invited to join. One cannot obtain membership simply because one can afford the $15,000+ yearly membership fees that are a prerequisite. One must be invited. Certain people care about who they rub elbows with. Exclusive membership should afford a natural barrier reef against that sort of unacceptable aspect of life - as is the general theory anyway. Simply because people want to choose the environment in which they are a part and the people they have to "entertain." The appalling degree of your lack of sophistication and polish does not impact my world beyond the inherent irritation and pain of constipation from having to deal with the likes of you in this forum. It does not cost me a penny or impact my bank account in the least. It may or may not have impacted yours or those around you from the fallout and collateral damage caused by you and those like you.

One year a few members of my family and friends (both foreign and domestic) were scheduled to make an Honorverse convention. I threw out all kinds of hints. I even openly enquired of certain members if they were going to be present. The attitude of certain other members of the forum nixed that. That was a shame. The forum missed my brilliant young niece who was so excited to attend. Several of my foreign friends were scheduled to make the convention as well, as my treat. Several of my friends are rather wealthy, even by my own standards, and they were wanting to spearhead a fund to drive the idea of a television series and or movie which somewhat predated Evergreens' involvement. I see that there is a thread regarding that now which prompted this memory. The financial commitment that they tentatively garnered was exciting. My niece jumpstarted that inasmuch as it was her initial idea. Also on the line was the fact that I had planned to come bearing certain mementos, such as complete sets of Weber Works, what we had come to call them, along with specially included bookcases to display the sets. We were even hoping to obtain signings from Weber that we were more than willing to compensate him for. That aspect was probably for the best, considering his injuries. I planned it for the first 50 people at the convention on a first come first served basis, jumpstarted from a list of forumites that I had already positively interacted with and had personally chosen. I think I had actually seventeen on the list that had automatically become recipients. I ended up with 78 complete sets with as many leather bound copies that I could get my hands on. Then the total disrespect began and my social circle was appalled. The collections ended up being sent to my friends abroad and here at home. Several local libraries received complete sets along with several high schools.

The Duckking of the God Exists thread for no apparent reason was the nail in the coffin. Certain affluent friends of mine were appalled. In their heads it reflected negatively on the religious notions of DW. Which isn't fair. I happen to know for a fact that DW is a believer. Yet the damage was already done and the thread already closed.

E, do continue your lack of savoir faire, I can't imagine that it hasn't already cost you in your life because you have no clue of the blessings that one may flush down the drain from the unbeknownst spigots of human kindness that may happen to be hovering at the time in your sphere, who you make privy to your appalling lack of class. Do be mindful that your actions may cost others as well, in collateral damage. It hasn't cost me a dime, except for the 75-100k on the books. Ultimately that wasn't wasted. Actually, I ended up saving tons of cash if you consider the amount of money earmarked to be thrown around at the convention. Thank you and those like you.

The "insophisticate" redresses itself.

When I exit the forum or close my computer, I don't have to worry about running into the likes of you. You won't be found in my social circles. I am certain you will not be invited to any of the clubs I frequent, quite certain of that. You won't be able to get close enough to even be heard if you scream.

You do not embarrass me if that is the impetus behind your efforts. The people that matter in my world would recognize you for what you are. And if you and your cohort lyonheart truly feel that I am ignorant because I fail to grasp the tech of the Honorverse then you are as stupid as you are logically inept and arrogant. Yes, I am ignorant of Honorverse tech. I'm the first to highlight that fact. Personally, there is only so far I want to invest in it. I don't begrudge those who do. Rather instead, if that is the only substance you are capable of, if there is nothing else between your ears, if you truly think that is all that is important in life or even on this forum, then you are both sad and sadly mistaken.

I can not consume a story and be so technologically vested in an author's pen. When Truman brought Hamish over the hyper wall and hurled missiles at Honor's enemy, I can't pull out my trusty calculator and crunch the numbers on its technical validity. It rubs me the wrong way. Nor is there any motivation to do so. My tears from the excitement of certain events in a story are what is real to me, is what is important to me. It is as if many of you, indeed most males, are intent on proving the excitement wrong and not truly the tech, as you imply. After all, what is important at the end of the day or the end of the read? It is the enjoyment of the story that is important to me. Even if I were to crunch the numbers and find that something wasn't possible, so what? Change the numbers already! The author can make mistakes, but he didn't make a mistake on the excitement quotient. He got that one right. It must be insanely phucking difficult to be a sci-fi author these days, because many readers read the stories with a slide rule in their lapel pocket and a smart phone in their holsters. Forgetting the pure enjoyment of the read. And you wish that on others. Hell no, ain't so. Not in my book. I didn't buy a book to become the author's research assistant. I don't need the cash, or the workload. It is as if a surgeon would come to me for a second opinion. Hell, that's his job, his specialty and his career.

The E wrote:If that's the sort of discourse you think is appropriate here, go right ahead.

Because the sort of discourse that is appropriate in any type of a forum includes blatant disrespect? Again, your disjointed worldly logic precedes you. I notice that you cannot accurately discuss any topic outside of Honorverse tech. It is obvious that your education is sub par. No common sense "atall." You simply cannot have a conversation with substance outside of "Honorverse tech."

You are German from what I gather. I dated a German professor for over five years. She hailed from a little town about fifty clicks from Stuttgart. She once informed me that Germans have a saying that loosely translates into "It is fine to toot your own horn because if not it won't get tooted." Which I always found rather culturally interesting because it is the complete opposite from what is generally accepted here in America. Nevertheless, I've always liked the phrase. I'll just do a little of that tooting because I think that jealousy is a bit tied up in your attitude. So let's just lay it all out. Some of it anyway. I didn't think it was a symptom of childish jealousy. I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but my friends certainly did and do.

I've had several emails thanking me for my freshness of topics and outlook on things. Several emails and several of the same can be found openly posted. How many do you have? Has anyone posted or emailed you on your cleverness and insight? Has even one person emailed you or posted that they hope you remain? I've had a poster post openly, claiming that their visits to this forum was in jeopardy before I came. So again, where are you getting your logic?

I've had threads to break records here I am told. Heck, Cthia's Greatest Holiday Hits in the Humor thread alone garnered 40,000 insane views in an insanely short time span. The website crashed during that time. Highly suspicious. The one-liner thread topped 1000 posts in less than three months! All because I like book discussions and I have a flair for seeing what others do not. I was accused of purposefully creating successful threads???

As opposed to creating threads that interest no one or has little interest? Simply more disjointed and confused logic born out of the real issue which is infantile jealousy. Mindless, childish immature jealousy of school kids. Gees! My friends pointed to this obvious culprit. I said "Nah, no one is that childish." Well...

Your nonsense will be ignored from here on out. Embarrass yourself all you like.

Do not lead posts with missteps like "Read my lips," or "Repeat after me." Especially when you're talking out of the side of your neck and saying absolutely... nothing. People will forget about you and your kind faster than Romeo dismissed his love for Rosaline and fell for Juliet.

.

Jonathan_S wrote:Redlining a LAC to 100% military power, or even trying to ride the compensator's safety margin to momentarily exceed 100% power (an Honor did on the CA HMS War Maiden during an emergency in Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington would be very dangerous) But also not something you'd ever be allowed to do in training.

Here's the bit I was referring to.

Changer of Worlds: Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington wrote:HMS War Maiden's inertial compensator protested its savage abuse. More alarms howled as the load on the heavy cruiser's impeller nodes peaked forty percent beyond their "Never Exceed" levels. Despite her mangled after impeller ring, War Maiden slammed suddenly forward at almost five hundred and fifty gravities.

WLBjork wrote:Depends. If the "never exceed" limit was about 70% of max, then 140% of that takes you to about 98% of max.

Although I thought they limited themselves to 80% of max under normal circumstances.

On the other hand, "never exceed" may have been intended as max, although that would require something distinctly...unusual for WM to achieve without the compensator blowing.

Pull up! Pull up! Pull up!

I simply meant that LACS is one area where I imagine the RMN went out to push the limit. I still think I'm right. You all are so invested in the tech that you have one track minds. Pull back.

It is the human element and human nature. In the beginning, I imagine that the first LACS had many intrinsic problems that had to be ironed out. The RMN was in the middle of a war. LACS were evolving. I imagine that there were many accidents simply training to launch the damn things quickly. David Weber cannot and should not have to include everything that I know goes on behind the scenes in everyday life. Do you not think that the Honorverse is subject to the human element, human error, human nature?

No? Why is that?