THE C R U S H E R

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:It is interesting that Nimitz may have gone through all of the courses with Honor. It is also interesting that in some point in the future some lucky officer may find themselves matriculating through the course with the same bonded fortune as Honor, but with a Memory Singer instead. A Memory Singer would remember every single word spoken in every class and every situation. Talk about a personal tape recorder brought to class. Heck, you could send your treecat to sit in on class for you, in an emergency - if your telempathic skills have been intensified like Honor's or more so like the "tum te tum" the author is dangling before us regarding Raoul. Nonetheless, this is an exciting path that RFC can take with Raoul.

If Nimitz and the cats in general are allowed to accompany their persons, that is.

Unfortunately, Treecat numbers don't grow fast, but no doubt one of their items on the "soon to do list" is to understand Human technology and society better. They may assign memory singers with a small number of scouts and hunters to learn jobs and skills - and technology.

So it may be a couple years, but you may see a group of treecats attending lectures at the Island to add to the collective knowledge base.

However, one thing we do not know is how quickly a mind song can be relayed to another. Is it truly singing, where a group can indulge in the memory, in real time, or can it be instantly shared, either with an individual or a group? If it is a 1:1 timescale, relaying the entirety of someone's memory is not a very efficient way to transfer knowledge (Just like you can give a recipe in a single page of paper, but the YouTube video of the same procedure is 30 minutes long.) So in the modern day, memory singing may be a very inefficient way of teaching alone.

Remember several treecats have attended various portions of RMNA;SI and ATC at one time or another.

IIRC
Nimitz attended RMNA; SI and ATC
Samantha part of RMNA;SI 2nd or 3rd year on, plus various engineering schools(probably)
Banshee ATC
Hipper currently RMNA;SI

Well Louis, I'm certainly guilty of that simple pleasure for sure. Extreme prejudice with malice.

But we aren't completely without some manner of textev underlining his (always incompetence) stupidity. Georgia underlined it quite well in textev and it is included in the wiki...

Prior to their marriage, Georgia Sakristos' private assessment of her future husband was that he displayed most or all of the negative qualities of his father and brothers, though he was not quite as stupid as Pavel. She also calculated that his ambition and thirst for power would make him easy to manipulate. (HH4)

I concede that that is a general assessment of his IQ and may not necessarily match his ability to pass the Crusher. Though I imagine you're going to find it hard pressed to actually find many here that don't take it at face value. But you do have a point, being the dutiful neutral and impartial observer that you are.

Which brings me to something else that's been anagging me. If I may borrow a previous post from...

George J. Smith wrote:In the side story Ms Midshipwoman Harrington, Honor was promoted by Cpt Bacfish(sp) midway through her snotty cruise due to her saving the ship from being destroyed by a privateer.

That would explain the time difference in the dates of promotion.

What are the requirements and or limitations for making rank aboard ship from its CO? As I recall, any such promotion is subject to approval by the Admiralty. My interest lies in the area that it possibly might explain how Young collected rank after cronyism cheated, ok allegedly cheated, the ATC.

Really, I can somewhat accept that the North Hollow files may have gotten him through Sag Isle, but after his assuming command and the pedal hit the metal, I can't rub two nickels together to come up with a penny's worth of thoughts as to how he managed to gain rank - and to stay ahead of Honor to boot. But if he received rank aboard ships with CO's within the good ol' boy network, that might explain it.

Nonetheless, any such promotions would again be subject to approval by the Admiralty. So back to square one.

And we know he was incompetent. Hamish's scathing rant certainly put paid to that. And his incompetence may have stemmed from his not actually passing the ATC.

Louis R wrote:A lot of people seem to posting from their prejudices where Pavel Young is concerned. Being a pusillanimous turd doesn't automatically equate to being stupid or unable to master course material. Nor need it imply a lack of tactical acumen. It doesn't even equate to being unable to apply oneself when the circumstances warrant it, to at least a minimally-acceptable standard. Being a vindictive SOB as well can impact the latter, but the numbers of those are legion who have sustained themselves through adversity with dreams of what they'll be able to do to others once they reach the top of the pile.

Where they do affect performance is when the pedal hits the metal. The turd is going to run like a rabbit when the splinters start creasing his own personal crust, not when safe and sound in a simulator at the bottom of the atmosphere of his home world. Something that every military knows, which is why it's regarded as a truism that you can never take combat performance for granted based on training results. For men or equipment. That's why so many equipment mods came out of the Balkans, Iraq and Afghanistan, and why the guys getting the promotions now can show evidence of at least being within earshot of the gunfire. Training does manage to wash out many of the unsuitable, but it can't get them all unless you're willing to start blowing people to kingdom come for real. Something that is widely regarded as wasteful, and not without reason.

TL:DR: Young passed the same way anybody else did. Maybe with a poorer final evaluation than most, that's something that can be worked around.

saber964 wrote:

Annachie wrote:We don't know that Pavel Young passed the crusher.
Perhaps the reason he ended up at Basilisk was that he was promoted to captain a cruiser without the course.
I could see his fathers influence being able to handle that.

Hell, just have him as the exec of a cruiser, bribe or blackmail the captain to leaving suddenly and force through a field promotion.

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No, Young probably passed it. With the help of dear old daddy and his blackmail files.

You have to look at a time line to see when Young was at ATC. IIRC Young had been in command of Warlock for just over a year when Fearless showed up in late 1900 PD. So Young probably took the course when he was a LCDR/CDR probably 5-6 years before Honor did.

.

saber964 wrote:Remember several treecats have attended various portions of RMNA;SI and ATC at one time or another.

It doesn't matter. They don't think like that.

IIRC we have another idiot getting promoted beyond there capabilities, namely Elvis Santino. IIRC HH wondered how he had passed ATC in AoV.

Also what about Edward Janacek. IIRC in HoS he was two or three grades above Hamish (IIRC they were in the same academy class) and was being pushed up the chain by family influence.

As I mentioned earlier it may not only be family influence. In OTL military networking is often more important than overall competence in seeking higher rank. The military tend to be loyal to members like a family does, and if someone has brown nosed to the right people up the chain it can grease their rails.
I did at times hear comments like, "He's not really up to speed, but is the right type, and will grow into the job", and "Don't bother checking references as he is an officer and a gentleman, so wouldn't lie".

saber964 wrote:IIRC we have another idiot getting promoted beyond there capabilities, namely Elvis Santino. IIRC HH wondered how he had passed ATC in AoV.

Also what about Edward Janacek. IIRC in HoS he was two or three grades above Hamish (IIRC they were in the same academy class) and was being pushed up the chain by family influence.

Isn't Samantha a memory singer?

saber964 wrote:IIRC we have another idiot getting promoted beyond there capabilities, namely Elvis Santino. IIRC HH wondered how he had passed ATC in AoV.

Also what about Edward Janacek. IIRC in HoS he was two or three grades above Hamish (IIRC they were in the same academy class) and was being pushed up the chain by family influence.

Janacek wasn't incompetent, he was wrong.

We also don't know that Janacek passed it either.

As someone pointed out, there are plenty of ship command spots that aren't combat.
Mix them with squadron staff slots in combat units or similar and he could looks the goods.

A thought that makes me think more and more that Pavel necer took the crusher, just got boosted by the old boy network until he got a brevet promotion to command Warlock which was quietly approved by someone in bupers.

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We have to take into account that Honor Harrington's are very rare the vast majority of thous who take and pass the Crusher will be merely competent ship captains.


Both Santino and Young had dangerous character flaws that Crusher can not really test for. Young was a coward that broke in an actual situation he could die in. Santino was lazy thinker that did not want to be seen as a coward running from a fight.

saber964 wrote:IIRC we have another idiot getting promoted beyond there capabilities, namely Elvis Santino. IIRC HH wondered how he had passed ATC in AoV.

Santino's idiocy was more around poor enemy capability assessment than crappy tactics.

If he'd been correct in his belief that the Peep hadn't broken the Mantie's monopoly on towed pods[1] he probably could have inflicted the disproportionate damage to the Peeps on his way out of the system. So his tactics, while nothing special, wouldn't have been a disaster if the peeps hadn't sprung their pods in his face. (Mind you his panic about being found unprepared didn't do him any favors)

And his unpreparedness in not updating and drilling contingency plans is not something likely to show up during a 6 month, high intensity, course like ATC. It's easy to make an effort when you know you're being graded...


Though now that I'm done being fair to him a better tactician, even if committed to the same goal of inflicting disproportionate damage before ceding the system, could have picked less risky options. (Tossing a bunch of recon drones to look for pods before you're unable to avoid combat comes to mind -- you'd loose a lot of your old-style drones; but a mass launch should get enough through to spring any surprises)

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[1] And keep in mind that at the time there were no confirmed reports that the Peeps had pods yet.