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THE C R U S H E R

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by The E   » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:41 pm

The E
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cthia wrote:Have you not yet learned that the tone of my posts may match what I receive?


Have you not learned that the degree of ignorance your posts betray may have something to do with the reception they get?

Your lack of manners denote some hidden psychological problems, perhaps the resentment of some latent effect of missing out on being breast fed.


Wow, now you're trying to psychoanalyze me.

All because I said that you made a decision for some unknown reason.

Do you often overreact that much?

I can send you some plastic nipples to stand in for your ravenous need if it is that important to you. Your persistent ill manners denote someone stuck in Tanner Stage 3. Do you think you will ever outgrow it, or did you inadvertently receive the Generation 3 prolong treatment that has you stuck in the dumdrums?

It's getting old. I'm learning not to expect much from you. However, shan't you expect more of yourself?


See, the difference between my posts and what you're doing here is that I am generally very careful to call out ideas as stupid, not the person having them. You, on the other hand, spend an inordinate amount of words on trying to call me immature; I think you can guess why my days of not taking you seriously are not coming to an end soon. If that's the sort of discourse you think is appropriate here, go right ahead.
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by Daryl   » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:54 pm

Daryl
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From what I can see the Crusher does compare to our Command College in one critical way. At the rank of Major, Squadron Leader, Lt Commander you can command a significant fighting asset, a squadron of planes or a small warship.
However if passed over for Command College that's it careerwise. You can then stay on as a boggy Major doing good work but never rising in rank, or resign to go into external work.
An unfortunate aspect from what I saw was that networking (brown nosing) was as much a factor as actual ability in being selected.
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by kzt   » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:50 pm

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Daryl wrote:From what I can see the Crusher does compare to our Command College in one critical way. At the rank of Major, Squadron Leader, Lt Commander you can command a significant fighting asset, a squadron of planes or a small warship.
However if passed over for Command College that's it careerwise.

No, you should compar it to the precommand course, not the general education courses. Though these are not pass-fail you can certainly end your career there if you screw up enough. The one below is a battalion pre-command course.
https://www.benning.army.mil/MCOE/CATD/ ... rview.html (bad security cert - just go ahead anyhow).

MPCC CURRICULUM

Course Overview. The Maneuver Pre-Command Course (MPCC) prepares you for command by offering a formal course providing a broad update of Maneuver initiatives, issues, and programs, by introducing future commanders to key leaders at the Maneuver Center of Excellence (and establishing enduring lines of communication), and through providing a forum for future commanders to participate in professional discussions on leadership, mission command, and doctrine with experienced leaders at various levels of command. You will receive the opportunity to interact with your future soldiers, platoon leaders, and company commanders who are attending OSUT, BOLC, and MCCC. The Course Overview in this guide briefly describes course activities and electives, and assists you in preparing for your stay at Ft Benning, GA.
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by Daryl   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:47 am

Daryl
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Different countries, different courses. In our case far from all are offered to do the course, which is a series of different topics over six months. Most in the course do pass, as they work hard. Not being invited doesn't mean out of the military, but it does mean further promotions are unlikely.
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:22 am

cthia
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Daryl wrote:Different countries, different courses. In our case far from all are offered to do the course, which is a series of different topics over six months. Most in the course do pass, as they work hard. Not being invited doesn't mean out of the military, but it does mean further promotions are unlikely.

Your post made me wonder about any differences in ATC instruction for other navies, such as Grayson, Haven and the Andermani. I recall during the Second Battle of Manticore the missive of incorporating the Andermani elements into the Manticoran battle order. Which makes me wonder if any differences in tactical instruction would play any role in the difficulty.

And the related musing of how formal and unforgiving these navies tactical track is regarding their version of the Crusher. As in fail, no avail.

How do you suppose the Andermani ATC course would stack up against the GA? The Andies didn't come across as pushovers. I think Helbarde's captain was trying to shed light on his opinion that the Andermani are tactically superior.

I don't see how the Andies could have matched up against the Manties in tactical acumen. The Manticorans are so much more experienced. The Andies experience as far as I recall was limited to fighting piracy. Where do they even get a chance to test their weaponry?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:37 am

cthia
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Several things come to mind that are most likely taught in the Crusher. First is one's natural awareness of his surroundings while fighting a ship. IIRC, the term kinesthesia was brought up in regards to Honor's keen and natural ability therein. I suppose the Crusher is designed to sharpen that natural ability. In fact, it seems a given. During Honor's final scenes with the Q-ship, (Coglin?) was outmatched - which was obvious to me the difference of the RMN's Crusher instruction.

Also, weaponry. I imagine there is a grueling weapons course. One question that plagued me then and still does. At the introduction of Apollo, it certainly would not have been included in ATC training. Classified. Is it now?

The ATC is obviously constantly updated to reflect new and emerging technologies. I imagine the League had to completely overhaul its ATC. Missile ranges are off the chart as far as the League are concerned, ECM, stealth, LACs and maximum accel. Heck, the League's entire ATC should be thrown into their Pit.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:04 pm

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cthia wrote:The ATC is obviously constantly updated to reflect new and emerging technologies.


One of the changes made to the Crusher by Honor was simulator scenarios built around Allied navies' technology and organization. In effect, updating the curriculum to getting the best out old, obsolete technology.

Crusher simulator training is implied to be pass/fail; if you are alive at the end of the sim, you pass. You can pass and still be hammered in the debrief for the mistakes that you made and the choices you made.

The SLN training OTOH is explicitly described as highly scripted exercises where both sides have the "correct" answers ahead of time.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:13 pm

cthia
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The more I contemplate the mechanics of the Crusher the more I'm puzzled about Pavel Young passing it.

There must have been a list of instructors there, each with his own course work. When Honor was there she was simply one instructor amongst many. I simply cannot see Young passing all courses. If Young had Courvoisier for anything, he failed. And I cannot imagine failing a single aspect of the Crusher being acceptable, as Honor could not have failed math.

And if, say, Courvoisier failed Young then it would be obvious to Courvoisier that something fishy this way comes if Young still passed.

I know that cronyism and the good old boy network are in bed together, but I simply cannot see a polity like Manticore who is so deeply entrenched in its moral and ethical ideals to allow the ugly side of politics to invade an institution which is so instrumental to its existence as Saganami Island to the point that it risks the lives of its men and women by allowing someone like Young to buck the system. Something like that taints the tradition of Edward Saganami.

Saganami is spinning in his grave so fast it is upsetting the rotation of the planet.

ISTR a stampede of students competing for Honor's classes, which seem to support the same type of mechanics of a traditional university of several instructors teaching the same course. It would have to be that way to feed the ravenous appetite of BuPers to graduate so many.

Is it a given how long the course is?

I'd also like to know what Honor actually taught.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:04 pm

cthia
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Courses at Saganami Island - metonym for Royal Manticoran Naval Academy.





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Last edited by cthia on Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:56 am, edited 4 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:12 pm

cthia
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RFC simply has to have Honor eventually slotting in to fill the teaching post eventually held by Courvoisier, Fourth Form Tactics - which sounds like the one back breaking copper-plated Cordelia Ransom of a course.

Honor taught "Introductory" Tactics. How sweet. LOL

Does Fourth Form Tactics imply a Second and Third Form Tactics?

When did Andrea Jaruwalski become an instructor there? I thought she was merely assisting Honor as part of her rehabilitation.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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