THE C R U S H E R

What is so crushing about the Advanced Tactical Course aka The Crusher? Is there some form of legend?

What is some of the criteria you imagine to be found in the Crusher?

Word problems such as...

1) If you are outnumbered in hulls 2 to 1 and you have the advantage in missile range of X, and ship acceleration is X, and max enemy accel is X, then at what range should you engage?

2) What plot should you settle on to intercept bogey 1 if vector is x and accel is x and your position and accel relative is x?


Courses such as...

1) Astrophysics, Aeronautical Engineering? Mechanical Engineering.

2) Orbital Mechanics.

I'm thinking about taking on the copper-plated Cordelia Ransom next semester but I hear the dropout rate is staggering.

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The syllabus lists the Advanced Tactical Course (ATC) as a prerequisite for hyper command. I assume you can still become a captain or even an admiral of a non hyper-capable ship, those smaller than a light cruiser?

That doesn't seem right. So it must be wrong. Huh?

We need capable officers, so I hope pnakasone doesn't object to being transferred to Saganami Island.

pnakasone wrote:One problem with the Crusher is that it is not a genuine life or death situation. No matter how hard they try some people will get threw such rigorous testing only to fail in the heat of battle.

I would imagine the Crusher is as realistic as you can get without killing you. As emotionally hectic as possible, especially with advanced Honorverse computers. I even imagine electric shock treatment to stand in for missile hits and being thrown out of your seat on some impacts.

Do note, if hyper-capable command is desired, then it really is a life and death situation for some officers, because if you fail you will not be offered a hyper command again.

IIRC, you don't get a second chance?

cthia wrote:The syllabus lists the Advanced Tactical Course (ATC) as a prerequisite for hyper command. I assume you can still become a captain or even an admiral of a non hyper-capable ship, those smaller than a light cruiser?

That doesn't seem right. So it must be wrong. Huh?

It's clearly wrong in at least one respect: we've seen any number of Lieutenants, Commanders and so forth in command of hyper capable vessels. Some of these were smaller warships. It's most likely a requirement for promotion to Captain on the tactical track - that is, commander of a major warship.

I'm sure it's more a trope by RFC based on the Perisher than an actual thought out idea.



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cthia wrote:The syllabus lists the Advanced Tactical Course (ATC) as a prerequisite for hyper command. I assume you can still become a captain or even an admiral of a non hyper-capable ship, those smaller than a light cruiser?

That doesn't seem right. So it must be wrong. Huh?

It is wrong.

You can, under specific circumstances, get a hyper capable command without going through the Crusher first. Honor herself did so when she commanded HMS Hawkwing; but it is implied that passing the ATC is an absolute requirement for larger commands. If you can't pass it, you will not be able to get into a line position and are most likely to end your career on the staff track. The chances of getting flag rank are basically nil.

pnakasone wrote:One problem with the Crusher is that it is not a genuine life or death situation. No matter how hard they try some people will get threw such rigorous testing only to fail in the heat of battle.

Name a single military on the planet which has mortal danger and actual warfare on its syllabus for their commanding officer courses.

Of course that means that someone can pass the courses and still lock up under actual fire. That happens for every profession on this planet, and there's no way around it.

cthia wrote:Do note, if hyper-capable command is desired, then it really is a life and death situation for some officers, because if you fail you will not be offered a hyper command again.

And as we all know, Manticore routinely executes people that fail that course.

Seriously though, failing that course is the very opposite of a "life and death situation". If you fail, you still have a military career (albeit one that doesn't involve independent starship command), and presumably all the education and training that went into your career as an officer up to that point, which I would imagine opens up a lot of opportunities in the civilian world.

Annachie wrote:I'm sure it's more a trope by RFC based on the Perisher than an actual thought out idea.



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Thanks for the info. I had no idea about the Royal Navy Submarine Command Course and had to seek wiki help. Very interesting. RFC, why that sly old fox! And if it really is patterned after it to the letter, then it answers my question that you indeed bet just one shot. Pass/Fail.

The Perisher (video) Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

Thanksabunch Annachie!

Honesty, in this crowd, I'm suprised everbody didn't know about it.

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The E wrote:

cthia wrote:The syllabus lists the Advanced Tactical Course (ATC) as a prerequisite for hyper command. I assume you can still become a captain or even an admiral of a non hyper-capable ship, those smaller than a light cruiser?

That doesn't seem right. So it must be wrong. Huh?

It is wrong.

You can, under specific circumstances, get a hyper capable command without going through the Crusher first. Honor herself did so when she commanded HMS Hawkwing; but it is implied that passing the ATC is an absolute requirement for larger commands. If you can't pass it, you will not be able to get into a line position and are most likely to end your career on the staff track. The chances of getting flag rank are basically nil.

Not quite nil. Staff officers can rise to flag ranks. The only particular examples I can think of are Patricia Givens and Jonas Adcock.

munroburton wrote:
(snippage)

The E wrote:
It is wrong.


You can, under specific circumstances, get a hyper capable command without going through the Crusher first. Honor herself did so when she commanded HMS Hawkwing; but it is implied that passing the ATC is an absolute requirement for larger commands. If you can't pass it, you will not be able to get into a line position and are most likely to end your career on the staff track. The chances of getting flag rank are basically nil.

Not quite nil. Staff officers can rise to flag ranks. The only particular examples I can think of are Patricia Givens and Jonas Adcock.

But the surest path to command is tactical. Yes, young Webster had command of one of the Q-ships Honor took to Silesia, and he was a Communications specialist. But the Q-ships were not a major combatant. And for all we know, he did go through The Crusher beforehand. Given that he was a graduate of the HMS Fearless school of tactical survival, he was probably headed toward The Crusher despite his non-tactical career track.

Speaking of which, have we seen anything of young Capt (JG) Webster since the Silesia affair?