Last use for SL SD captured

kzt wrote:They typical verge system seems to be as sparely populated as Manticore. Which means a few billion people. It's not New Zealand, it's more India.

And you're basing that on what, exactly?

The E wrote:

kzt wrote:They typical verge system seems to be as sparely populated as Manticore. Which means a few billion people. It's not New Zealand, it's more India.

And you're basing that on what, exactly?

Davids descriptions of the verge worlds.

Look at the descriptions in SoV. These are not tiny little colonies, these are global civilizations with multiple large and densely packed cites.

kzt wrote:Davids descriptions of the verge worlds.

Look at the descriptions in SoV. These are not tiny little colonies, these are global civilizations with multiple large and densely packed cites.

Yeah, but that doesn't tell us anything about the population density of those worlds. You can have multiple large and densely packed cities and still only have a couple hundred million citizens.

munroburton wrote:You yourself said give them to targets Frontier Fleet would attack. Why would this not result in Battle Fleet units being dispatched?

NO, I said offer them to systems that are being threatened by FF, with takeover, as the Talbott Cluster was. But, if anyone is facing the SL or Manpower, then - want'em? "COME-GET'EM", another friendly ally and someone the SL has to divert at-least some attention to, and at no cost to us. I think Maya would jump at the offer. It's not like they don't have the manpower training or repair/upgrade facilities and they are part of the SL to begin with so you can't say they don't have the tech or the need for the hulls. They are basically crash-building smaller cheaper ships with the same tech level so why would they not?

The E wrote:Yeah, but that doesn't tell us anything about the population density of those worlds. You can have multiple large and densely packed cities and still only have a couple hundred million citizens.

There are >20 billion people in Talbott.

kzt wrote:They typical verge system seems to be as sparely populated as Manticore. Which means a few billion people. It's not New Zealand, it's more India.

The E wrote:And you're basing that on what, exactly?

kzt wrote:Davids descriptions of the verge worlds.

Look at the descriptions in SoV. These are not tiny little colonies, these are global civilizations with multiple large and densely packed cites.

Which Verge worlds are we talking about? The ones in the Maya Sector, or Refuge? Or the ones in between, that find it impossible to properly maintain a single space station, so it gets taken over by Manpower?

The Verge is a big place, and the populations go all the way from Manticore and Haven on one end, to Refuge and Parmley Station on the other.

Among this clutter, what's "typical?" I expect that various departments of astrographics have a definition, but the definition is probably as useful as ballet slippers on a pig. (No comments about Disney's animation of "Dance of the Hours" in Fantasia, please.)

kzt wrote:They typical verge system seems to be as sparely populated as Manticore. Which means a few billion people. It's not New Zealand, it's more India.

Right, so I guess they're saying most Verge planets have less than 6000 people on them? even a planet with a million people can come up with a few thousand to operate a ship, yea they may ask for some help with training but even if Manticore is too busy, the Andermani or certainly the Peeps would be more than willing to help for a small price (a real bargain to get a free SD). As to upkeep, a ship (especially an SD) doesn't just break down every time it leaves port. Yes there may be some issues later for them with maintenance, but that will be down the road and not the GA's problem. wave a free SD in someone's face they'll jump. later, when they do need maintenance there will be several options;
1) they have it scrapped if they find they don't want it.
2) they lay it up as a token 'flagship' it sits in orbit with a toke crew and corrodes away (as many real ships have)
3) they hire someone to help get it back working again - at which time (several years) the war should be over, Manticore has its yards back on-line and they (or someone else) get a sizable fee for the refurb and upgrade package.

The E wrote:To use a real-world analogy: You're talking about selling off a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier to a country like New Zealand. Sure, NZ has a navy, they even have a few pilots, but that doesn't mean that they can use a Nimitz.

What makes you think NZ couldn't operate a Nimitz? they don't have 6000 men to train? I guess it would be impossible for India to operate a Kiev class aircraft carrier. How ridiculous would that be? ... oh wait, they do!!! Anyway the crew of an SD is around 5-6,000, the same as a Nimitz, so your saying an entire planet can't provide enough manpower to operate a single Nimitz class carrier? hmmm, good thing the US has a dozen planets providing it support. ???? oh wait, it doesn't it has less than 1/2 of 1 continent on one planet?

The E wrote:Yeah, but that doesn't tell us anything about the population density of those worlds. You can have multiple large and densely packed cities and still only have a couple hundred million citizens.

how do they manage to operate 10 of them? Must be the aliens at Area-51. they are secretly providing extra manpower to operate all those carriers from 12 other planets.

(Sarcasm, MIB, JK - no need to come looking for me if I guessed right. )

MAD-4A wrote:[ I think Maya would jump at the offer. It's not like they don't have the manpower training or repair/upgrade facilities and they are part of the SL to begin with so you can't say they don't have the tech or the need for the hulls. They are basically crash-building smaller cheaper ships with the same tech level so why would they not?

I think there would be political issues to Maya acquiring some of Crandall or Filaretta's survivors while remaining members of the Solarian League. Not sure the Maya clique (cabal?) would want to draw that much attention their way before they actually execute their Sepoy Option.

Fox2! wrote:

MAD-4A wrote:[ I think Maya would jump at the offer. It's not like they don't have the manpower training or repair/upgrade facilities and they are part of the SL to begin with so you can't say they don't have the tech or the need for the hulls. They are basically crash-building smaller cheaper ships with the same tech level so why would they not?

I think there would be political issues to Maya acquiring some of Crandall or Filaretta's survivors while remaining members of the Solarian League. Not sure the Maya clique (cabal?) would want to draw that much attention their way before they actually execute their Sepoy Option.

They are not building their own ships, Erewhon is. Erewhon has access to somewhat out-of-date Manticorean military technology, so I expect that the SDs it's building for Maya Sector are substantially better than the ISLN's Scientist class, as well as take smaller crews.

Given that Smoking Frog will probably be getting Mycroft before the SLN catches on that they've seceded and sends a task force their way, I don't see that they have any real need for SDs.

JohnRoth wrote:They are not building their own ships, Erewhon is. Erewhon has access to somewhat out-of-date Manticorean military technology, so I expect that the SDs it's building for Maya Sector are substantially better than the ISLN's Scientist class, as well as take smaller crews.

Maya is funding Erewhon shipyard expansion so they can build SD(P)s for Maya. Maya is well aware of how useless the Scientist and Vega class SLN ships are and wouldn't take them if they were paid to scrap them. Well maybe if they were paid enough.

Maya's new Marksman-class cruisers use a high degree of automation to reduce crew size and when combined with their "arsenal" ships are more than a match for SLN SDs. Why would they want ships that take five times the crew to field half the firepower?

Maya is probably the one sector that could actually use SLN SDs -- as opposed to using it as a "scarecrow" -- since they actually have a substantial pool of sailors trained on SLN hardware. Perhaps other OFS sectors have similar contingency plans but until they actually secede they can't accept captured SLN ships from Manticore without political repercussions.

The problem for lesser Verge systems isn't warm bodies that can operate an airlock. The problem is trained Navy personnel who can utilize the (limited) capability of a SLN SD. Training that Navy is going to take time, enough time that a more effective and efficient defensive system (like Mycroft and LACs) can be built installed and manned with trained people.