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Last use for SL SD captured

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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:47 am

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MAD-4A wrote:
WeirdlyWired wrote:Obviously you either speed read these books or just scan them. As mentioned MOST Battle Fleet ships float in orbit in virtual[as opposed to literal] mothball conditions with only a skeleton rew aboard; the money for parts, maintenance, food etc going into the pockets of the Admirals. No spare parts, not tools for their lathes,no maintenace. Ships they boarded had missing lights, no maintenance on emergency hatches "wonder what other maintenance they neglected"
Yes, cause that's how they sent them into battle to invade Manticore, did you skim it? They sent the fleet in supplied, no-one would send ship into space without supplies, much less to invade another nations capitol - that's just ridiculous - they even gave them new top-of-the-line missile pods to tow behind them (which were flushed but aside from that, and what was expended, the ships that surrendered were fully stocked) so out of what 400 or so that were surrendered (between Spindle and MC) that's supplies for at-least 300, so a full division for up to 75 systems, and NO - as stated before - why does Manticore have to supply ANY manpower or support at all (aside from tugs to put them in parking orbits and lighters to guide in prize crews from other nations) just send out the word around the SL 'come and get'em.' It doesn't take a veteran Battlefleet crew to run a SD from point A to point B, yea when they get where their going they will need a full crew but a few local defense force officers with some recalled merchie reservists can occupy the hull, figure out the controls (for engineering and Navigation which is basically the same as in a merchie with a few extra bells and whistles they leave alone for now) and off they go, perhaps with a DD or CL that accompanied the prize crew in and escorts the SDs back home. that give more than ample time for the home navy to run through a crash-course recruitment/training program so full crews will be available when the hulls arrive. (don't even start to tell me that an entire fully colonized planet can't scrape together enough volunteers to man 4 SDs that would just be idiocy.)


Sure, But when the Boarding parties boarded Crandall's SDs they found piss poor maintenance, burned out lights etc. I assume the ships participating in "Operation Winter Forage" were as well supplied as Filareta's ships were. YA THINK.

Yes Post Lacoon I I am sure it would be easy to post ads in whatever Manticore merchant marine uses for crews to ferry Obsolete Pieces of Crap in unknown state of disrepair to the SL.

I am equally sure Any planet could post an ad on Craigslist: "Job Fair this weekend. Need 1,000,000 people no experience necessary, no skills necessary, earn while you learn."

With Case Lacoon, However I'm not sure how you are going to announce the "Sale of the Century" to all these league worlds. The Mandarins commented that the core worlds did not have system defense forces. So how thy are going to train these volunteers into a NAVY, not just a bunch of people that can run systems, IRDK. And there is the expense of training these people and winnowing down the million to whatever size you need, setting up production lines for pods and missiles,developing battle plans Alpha through Omega.

Easy to crew ships. expensive and time-consuming to turn those crews and ships into a functioning navy. Reread the Battle of Monica [SoS]for sending ships with experienced crews into battle with unfamiliar equipment, then figure out how bad it would be with inexperienced crews with unfamiliar equipment. even against ships of equal capabilities.

And what happens when the Mandarins hear about this sale? I think Munroburton pretty well covered that.
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by noblehunter   » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:20 am

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Not to mention the perils of training a Navy from scratch using equipment with an obsolete design philosophy. Not much point in training on equipment that freaks out and shuts down when confronted with the current density of missile salvos.

Since the SDs are being proposed as a stopgap between no navy and a modern navy, it seems like a bad idea to teach new officers bad habits. It'd be far better to start with smaller units with current anti-missile defenses than to stick them on something that expects to do most of its fighting in energy range.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by robert132   » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:42 pm

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kzt wrote:I strongly suspect that battle fleet will be disbanded and the the crews used to man more effective ships as soon as they are ready.


I think this is a given, assuming anyone in the SLN has that level of common sense.

This gives the SLN a titanic number of experienced spacers, many of whom are probably trainable to handle the new equipment.

The numbers of COMBAT EXPERIENCED personnel however is rather small. To date those BF personnel who gained that experience and survived combat with the RMN / GA who are not POWs can be counted on the thumbs of your left foot.

By the time the new tech is ready, the new platforms (ships) are ready and the personnel retrained ... all the shooting should be over and Honor's grandkids should be ready for retirement. :mrgreen:
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Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by drothgery   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:42 am

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robert132 wrote:The numbers of COMBAT EXPERIENCED personnel however is rather small. To date those BF personnel who gained that experience and survived combat with the RMN / GA who are not POWs can be counted on the thumbs of your left foot.

Not that I really expect anything out of the SLN, but I would note that at the start of the first Havenite War, it was the People's Navy that had all the combat experience...
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:11 am

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drothgery wrote:Not that I really expect anything out of the SLN, but I would note that at the start of the first Havenite War, it was the People's Navy that had all the combat experience...


Not quite all. RMN sent almost all of its officers to Silesia to blood them against pirates; some of which were well-equipped privateer warships. They also held regular, realistic training in fleet maneuvers.

SLN Battle Fleet doesn't have even that much experience; according to textev, they didn't even have realistic exercises. Frontier Fleet is another story; probably somewhere between the PRN and RMN at the beginning of the first war.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by WLBjork   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:31 am

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noblehunter wrote:Not to mention the perils of training a Navy from scratch using equipment with an obsolete design philosophy. Not much point in training on equipment that freaks out and shuts down when confronted with the current density of missile salvos.

Since the SDs are being proposed as a stopgap between no navy and a modern navy, it seems like a bad idea to teach new officers bad habits. It'd be far better to start with smaller units with current anti-missile defenses than to stick them on something that expects to do most of its fighting in energy range.


That's what we were leader to believe...until the SD armament was revealed.

It is entirely possible, even probable, that the armament mounted is smaller and weaker than anything that would be accepted for an SD by the Grand Alliance, yet they are more missile orientated than previous statements would have us consider by comparison to RMN ships of what should be a similar vintage and design philosophy.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:15 am

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WLBjork wrote:
noblehunter wrote:Not to mention the perils of training a Navy from scratch using equipment with an obsolete design philosophy. Not much point in training on equipment that freaks out and shuts down when confronted with the current density of missile salvos.

Since the SDs are being proposed as a stopgap between no navy and a modern navy, it seems like a bad idea to teach new officers bad habits. It'd be far better to start with smaller units with current anti-missile defenses than to stick them on something that expects to do most of its fighting in energy range.


That's what we were leader to believe...until the SD armament was revealed.

It is entirely possible, even probable, that the armament mounted is smaller and weaker than anything that would be accepted for an SD by the Grand Alliance, yet they are more missile orientated than previous statements would have us consider by comparison to RMN ships of what should be a similar vintage and design philosophy.



Not sure how many SDs the RMN had back in 1600 PD.In 1539 they had a couple of BCs undermanned and under armed, with another 3 about to come on line also under manned and under armed. But the issue seems to be that while the SKM/SEM navy managed to evolve into a lean mean fighting machine, The SLN just got fat lazy and stupid.
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Theemile   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:04 pm

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WeirdlyWired wrote:

Not sure how many SDs the RMN had back in 1600 PD.In 1539 they had a couple of BCs undermanned and under armed, with another 3 about to come on line also under manned and under armed. But the issue seems to be that while the SKM/SEM navy managed to evolve into a lean mean fighting machine, The SLN just got fat lazy and stupid.



Manticore's first SDs were built in the late 1780s, the Manticore class of 3. It was rebuilt in the 1850s, so we don't know the original stats, but it's latest mass is just shy of the Scientist's. The specs are in HoS.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by JohnRoth   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:50 pm

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I just came up with a wonderful use for those SDs, that is unfortunately too large to write in the margin of the book (oops, I don't write in books.)

Put them in parking orbit and turn the problem over to the House of Lords. That will keep the Lords out of worse mischief for a while.
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Re: Last use for SL SD captured
Post by Fox2!   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:33 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:I just came up with a wonderful use for those SDs, that is unfortunately too large to write in the margin of the book (oops, I don't write in books.)

Put them in parking orbit and turn the problem over to the House of Lords. That will keep the Lords out of worse mischief for a while.


That would be devilish. Elizabeth would love it, if she wasn't in the middle of a war with the largest, most powerful polity in human space.
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