Any what if moments?

cthia wrote:It was like some Manty Admiral pissed in some Andy Admiral's kraut with the hard-on Helbarde had for Jessica Epps. What's the big deal, it's sour anyways! Heck, the Andies hatred for the RMN rivaled the Leagues' and I didn't think that was possible.

The MWJ sure is the source of many a green-eyed monster.

Only some of the Andies were Manti-phobes. I believe most of this stemmed from friction over the SKM's longstanding foreign policy regarding Silesia - a policy which essentially locked the omnishambles of a status quo into place. Possibly some officers were jealous of the RMN's martial glory - there's a mention of the Andermani Empire having a "warrior aristocrat" tradition inherited from Anderman's mercenary company. Others, like Rabenstrange, saw them as natural allies.

As for Captain Gortz, his motivations were never explained. Honor herself speculated that he might have been the IAN's equivalent of Pavel Young - a thoroughly unsuitable officer given command of a heavy cruiser. Even after Basilisk, Young and his ship were sent off to escort freighters - in Silesia.

I don't think the League hated Manticore at that point in time either. Certainly, some of the transstellars and bureaucrats had been annoyed a few times, but the vast majority of the League's population and leaders simply didn't care either way until Byng and Crandall got themselves killed.

The ultimate "What If"

What if rfc doesn't finish the series??????

George J. Smith wrote:The ultimate "What If"

What if rfc doesn't finish the series??????

That's an easy one. Then we'll be stuck in a "Worthless Solly junk" loop.

munroburton wrote:

cthia wrote:It was like some Manty Admiral pissed in some Andy Admiral's kraut with the hard-on Helbarde had for Jessica Epps. What's the big deal, it's sour anyways! Heck, the Andies hatred for the RMN rivaled the Leagues' and I didn't think that was possible.

The MWJ sure is the source of many a green-eyed monster.

Only some of the Andies were Manti-phobes. I believe most of this stemmed from friction over the SKM's longstanding foreign policy regarding Silesia - a policy which essentially locked the omnishambles of a status quo into place. Possibly some officers were jealous of the RMN's martial glory - there's a mention of the Andermani Empire having a "warrior aristocrat" tradition inherited from Anderman's mercenary company. Others, like Rabenstrange, saw them as natural allies.

As for Captain Gortz, his motivations were never explained. Honor herself speculated that he might have been the IAN's equivalent of Pavel Young - a thoroughly unsuitable officer given command of a heavy cruiser. Even after Basilisk, Young and his ship were sent off to escort freighters - in Silesia.

I don't think the League hated Manticore at that point in time either. Certainly, some of the transstellars and bureaucrats had been annoyed a few times, but the vast majority of the League's population and leaders simply didn't care either way until Byng and Crandall got themselves killed.

I got the impression there were more than a few. Certainly the top brass didn't feel that way, because they could find their ass without help. But most of the officers were a different matter as the impression I got. Certainly the crew of Helbarde, then there was more than a bit of tension trying to get the Andies to relax and work with the RMN at the Second Battle of Manticore.

The one positive thing amidst it all, as I remember it, was that even though their... dislike? for the RMN at least equaled the SLN's, they didn't have any warm feelings towards the League either. And the RMN happened to be the lesser of the two evils. Everybody hates the gorilla.

Gortz being incompetent like Young didn't totally explain things. His hard-on for Jessica Epps was deep-seated. It went way beyond mere incompetence. It was personal. As is the League's animosity towards the RMN.

My memory failed me again and I thought Gortz survived. ISTR Rabenstrange's promise to report back to the Emperor per the actions of Helbarde. Oh well, memory madness.

Actually, what happened was that Rabenstrange sent the station commander he relieved back to explain to Gustav why he turned a lie into Imperial policy, and in the process nearly launched a war that the IAN would probably have lost.

More generally, I believe you are confusing hatred with resentment. Resentment the IAN has in spades: no proper imperialist ever really accepts external constraints on his ability to do just as he pleases.

cthia wrote:< snip >

My memory failed me again and I thought Gortz survived. ISTR Rabenstrange's promise to report back to the Emperor per the actions of Helbarde. Oh well, memory madness.

Guess it's time to serve this wine...

What if Pavel Young had indeed killed Nimitz in his sordid attempt to sexually assault Honor?

1) Nimitz wouldn't have been available to help defend Benjy and his family thus the coup could have succeeded.

2) Honor wouldn't have developed her ability to play diplomat therefore she wouldn't have been instrumental in reading Eloise's emotions and intentions.

Just these two alone off the top of my head would have had far reaching implications and could have dramatically changed the storyline.

Well, if he'd succeeded in killing Nimitz he'd have succeeded with Honor too most likely. There was a comment early on that humans that lost their treecat did survive the shock at a higher percentage than treecats that lost their human, but in both cases by far the most common outcome was the death of both members of the bond.

kzt wrote:Well, if he'd succeeded in killing Nimitz he'd have succeeded with Honor too most likely. There was a comment early on that humans that lost their treecat did survive the shock at a higher percentage than treecats that lost their human, but in both cases by far the most common outcome was the death of both members of the bond.

Hadn't considered that Honor could die from it and the possibility of her death would certainly be significantly higher than 50/50 considering she and Nimitz represent such a strong and old bond. But that would mean Young would be prone to necrophilia. The sick rat bastard! I wouldn't put it past him to get off on Honor's thrashing.

OTOH, we know that she wouldn't have died from it since she has been granted amnesty by the author in the form of a get out of Hell free card. She used it on Hades, remember?

cthia wrote:Hadn't considered that Honor could die from it and the possibility of her death would certainly be significantly higher than 50/50 considering she and Nimitz represent such a strong and old bond. But that would mean Young would be prone to necrophilia. The sick rat bastard! I wouldn't put it past him to get off on Honor's thrashing.

I think there would be a strong possibility of Honor going lethaly Berserker on Young before descending into apathy over Nimitz' death. As opposed to the mere crippling thrashing she actually delivered.

Still, Nimitz' death, or Pavel's disgrace if she'd reported him would have drastically changed the grounding of the events depicted in the Honorverse we all know and love. If Honor has get out of Hades plot-armor, then so does Nimitz.

What if ...

Honor took 8th Fleet on a little tour ... of the Sol system. Just showed up and requested to grant shore leave to her people?