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US Presidential Candidates

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:18 pm

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biochem wrote:Trump got his list from the Federalist Society. Any name on that list I would be acceptable to conservatives. Any conservative Repulican president would be choosing from the same list. It is not a Trump specific choice.

In this case it will not change the balance of power on the court since it is Scalia being replaced.


No, it is an empty seat being filled. Whoever fills it shifts the balance of power from what it currently is.

It stopped being "Scalia being replaced" almost a year ago when the GOP decided that they got to declare that when a president they didn't like was in office they just got to make blanket declarations that he didn't get to appoint people to the Court no matter who it was and just left it as an 8 person body.

So then we had an 8 person Court as the status quo for the last year. That is the reality that is now being proposed to be altered with a new nominee.

He has yet to try adding extra justices (FDR) or asking the IRS to investigate his opponents (Obama).


FFS that NEVER HAPPENED. What the hell is it with you guys and the fucking conspiracy theories and the total inability to engage your gullibility suppression when they have anything to do with a Democrat?

Some mid level management type telling their employees to take a good hard look at organizations with the name of a political movement in their title applying for tax exempt status that requires the organization in question NOT BE A POLITICAL ORGANIZATION is not even anything remotely resembling the President of the United States conspiring to use the IRS as a partisan political weapon. It's common sense and doing their freaking job. It's frankly a travesty that they even forced an apology over it.... and Obama didn't have a damn thing to do with any of it anyway.

Or step outside the constitution entirely and order the military to arrest the judge he doesn't like like a 3rd world dictator would (and our military isn't a 3rd world military, they would refuse such an unlawful order if he was stupid enough to try it). All he's ACTUALLY done so far is call the judge names which is protected First Ammendment speech.



No, he has not "called him names" Although frankly Trump calling a judge a stupid poopyhead would be about in line with what I'd expect out of him.

What he has done however is publicly expressed his disapproval of the Court's rights to rule on the legality of his orders and questioned the very legitimacy of an appointed Federal Judge because one did so in a way he didn't like. And he did so in his person as the Chief Executive of the fucking country. If you do not understand the problem with that you need to wake the hell up.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Tenshinai   » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:21 pm

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If you do not understand the problem with that you need to wake the hell up.


USA has always been a lot for "my country right or wrong, rah rah!" and "you´re either with us or against us".
This is just the same from a slightly more skewed angle.

It´s one of the problems with mindless "patriotism", it works perfectly for people like Trump.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Eyal   » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:47 pm

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biochem, I think the effect is rather more insiduous here.

On the face of it, the American system of checks and balances involves the three branches of government. At the moment, however, Congress isn't really giving any indications of acting as a check on Trump (see the latest vote for SoE - despite numerous Republicans stating she was unfit, almost none of them broke ranks over it in the end*). So at least at the moment it's left to the courts. More broadly, I doubt the GOP-controlled legislature will act as a check on Trump until their failure to do so threatens their seats, which will only happen if some of his base grows disillusioned. One things that could lead to that is information on failures or missteps by his administration.

So know Trump is sowing distrust of the courts, on the one hand, and discrediting the media to his followers on the other - which means said followers will be insulated from any information which might make them less enchanted with him. Yes, he's not throwing judges in jail, but he is trying to defang them. And it gets even worse if parts of the executive outright ignore the courts - which there were some indications of it happening during the early parts of the immigration EO mess (I'm willing to extend them the benefit of the doubt and assume they were unclear what to do, given that the people on the ground had no guidance from higher authority, since it was done on the weekend with no preparation, but if it recurs you have a major problem)

*And I'm somewhat skeptical that Collins and Murkowski didn't make sure in advance that there would be sufficient votes for her to pass before dissenting, given that they could have blocked her in committee**

**Incidently, it's curious how all the people screaming "pay to play" at Clinton are suddenly silent when DeVos seems to have bought a Cabinet seat...
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:25 pm

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And now we get to see the official @POTUS twitter account retweeting an @RealDonaldTrump twitter diatribe at Nordstrom's for dropping Ivanka's clothing line. The initial tweet from his personal twitter was bad enough... but retweeting it from the @POTUS account was immeasurably worse.


The President of the United States, in his official capacity, launching an assault on an American retailer on behalf of *his* family's business interests.




I await the explanation for why this isn't a problem either and we totally don't have to worry about conflicts of interest with Trump maintaining family ownership and operation of all those businesses... because reasons.


Can we have ****one freaking day*** when this idiot isn't doing something stupid/corrupt/unethical?
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Tenshinai   » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:42 pm

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Eyal wrote:
**Incidently, it's curious how all the people screaming "pay to play" at Clinton are suddenly silent when DeVos seems to have bought a Cabinet seat...


Oh but if you´re rightwinger, you´re EXPECTED to do things like that, so obviously they should get a free pass for it. :roll:



##########

Can we have ****one freaking day*** when this idiot isn't doing something stupid/corrupt/unethical?


Very much doubt it.


Well, there was that prediction by the guy that nailed the USSR collapse, said the USA would start its own imperial collapse in the 2020s.
:twisted:

:mrgreen:
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:50 pm

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And just for added smack-your-head-against-a-wall factor... it was just pointed out that according to the published White House schedule Trump was supposed to be 20 minutes into an Intelligence Briefing when he tweeted that.

Clearly, he's giving it his undivided attention with all the seriousness and gravity it deserves.

:roll:
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by biochem   » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:41 pm

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Eyal wrote:biochem, I think the effect is rather more insiduous here.

On the face of it, the American system of checks and balances involves the three branches of government. At the moment, however, Congress isn't really giving any indications of acting as a check on Trump (see the latest vote for SoE - despite numerous Republicans stating she was unfit, almost none of them broke ranks over it in the end*). So at least at the moment it's left to the courts. More broadly, I doubt the GOP-controlled legislature will act as a check on Trump until their failure to do so threatens their seats, which will only happen if some of his base grows disillusioned. One things that could lead to that is information on failures or missteps by his administration.


Actually the problem with the SOE is more complicated than that. It is really an argument over a worldview shift.

In the US, the education system is dominated by the teacher's unions. Their goal is their members first, kids second, parents last. It tends to work at least some-what well in most places because people who tend to become teachers are people who like kids and like to teach kids. But it doesn't work everyplace and this system is a huge problem when a bad, lazy etc teacher comes up. Such teachers can't be fired without enormous difficulty due to tenure rules negotiated by the unions. So they tend to be left in the classroom to damage the education of children. Parents whose kids are unlucky enough to get such a teacher have little choice in the matter. They're stuck with them unless they leave the public school system. There aren't a lot of these teachers but they do outsized damage relative to their numbers particularly in low income school districts.

The new SOE is a huge supporter of charter schools and has spent her career setting them up. Charter schools are public schools with different rules than the norm. The schools don't have to follow the rigid one size fits all policies some school districts like to impose, so they tend to have themes: some art/music focused, others science/math focused, others focus on latin and other old school ideas, others are Montessori based etc. Not all children learn in the same way, so the variety helps the parents find something suited for their children. And most importantly they are allowed to choose to keep or get rid of teachers i.e. they're not stuck with the bad ones.

The downside is that not all charter schools are better than the regular schools. This shouldn't be a surprise, not all ideas are good ones after all. However, it has proven problematic in some districts in which mechanisms to close down poorly performing charter schools were not in place.

In general charter schools are supported by Republicans (self-determination) and African Americans (desperation, they get the worst teachers). They are hated by teachers unions (their members are afraid tenure will disappear if charter schools become dominate) and opposed by Democrats (teachers unions are the biggest single campaign contributor to Democrats) and the African American leadership (they split with normal African Americans on the issue). Ideology i.e. a genuine belief everyone should be the same also plays a role with some of the far left Democrats.

She also supports school vouchers which is where parents in low quality school districts can take the money the district would have spent educating their child and use it for private school tuition. This makes the Democrats turn purple because the majority of parents choose a religious based schools, often times because those are the best quality schools they can get for the money. Vouchers are constitutional because the parents have the option to choose any qualified school religious or secular.

The 2 Republicans who called her unqualified have also received large campaign contributions from the teacher's unions so the sincerity of their opposition is questionable. Are they genuinely concerned about her qualifications or just staying bought? It could be either. Telepathy hasn't been invented yet.

So know Trump is sowing distrust of the courts, on the one hand, and discrediting the media to his followers on the other - which means said followers will be insulated from any information which might make them less enchanted with him. Yes, he's not throwing judges in jail, but he is trying to defang them. And it gets even worse if parts of the executive outright ignore the courts - which there were some indications of it happening during the early parts of the immigration EO mess (I'm willing to extend them the benefit of the doubt and assume they were unclear what to do, given that the people on the ground had no guidance from higher authority, since it was done on the weekend with no preparation, but if it recurs you have a major problem)


A subgroup of end justifies the means leftist lawyers and judges have been trying to legislate through the courts for years and the mainstream media openly hates him. So Trump isn't saying anything his supporters don't already believe. But it's a huge step from skepticism/distrust to destroying constitutional checks and balances.


*And I'm somewhat skeptical that Collins and Murkowski didn't make sure in advance that there would be sufficient votes for her to pass before dissenting, given that they could have blocked her in committee**

**Incidently, it's curious how all the people screaming "pay to play" at Clinton are suddenly silent when DeVos seems to have bought a Cabinet seat...


DeVos is extremely popular with conservative Republicans because of her pro-charter schools work. President Cruz for example would have also picked her, solely on the issues not for her $$$. Why Trump picked her since he is not a conservative Republican, I don't know for certain. My guess is that she is Pence's choice and that since she speaks money Trump is also comfortable with her i.e. they speak the same language.

The conservative Republicans behind the scenes in Trump's white house seem to have been fairly successful to date in getting Trump to support their agenda, which is why Trump is polling at an about 80-90% approval rating in this demographic, much higher than his overall approval rating which is about 45% (the overall rating is being pulled down by such groups as liberal Democrats who give him a 5-10% approval rating and would never vote for him anyway). The true test will be if he can keep his high level of support in the rust belt swing voters i.e. those in the rust belt who voted for Obama but then switched to Trump. I haven't seen a poll on that subgroup.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by biochem   » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:44 pm

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gcomeau wrote:And just for added smack-your-head-against-a-wall factor... it was just pointed out that according to the published White House schedule Trump was supposed to be 20 minutes into an Intelligence Briefing when he tweeted that.

Clearly, he's giving it his undivided attention with all the seriousness and gravity it deserves.

:roll:


He's outsourced most of the intelligence briefings to Mike Pence. Frankly I wish he's outsource 100% of them to Pence. I suspect given your opinion of Trump that you'd prefer Pence in total control of this area too.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:03 am

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gcomeau wrote:And now we get to see the official @POTUS twitter account retweeting an @RealDonaldTrump twitter diatribe at Nordstrom's for dropping Ivanka's clothing line. The initial tweet from his personal twitter was bad enough... but retweeting it from the @POTUS account was immeasurably worse.


The President of the United States, in his official capacity, launching an assault on an American retailer on behalf of *his* family's business interests.




I await the explanation for why this isn't a problem either and we totally don't have to worry about conflicts of interest with Trump maintaining family ownership and operation of all those businesses... because reasons.


Can we have ****one freaking day*** when this idiot isn't doing something stupid/corrupt/unethical?


I rather think this is more than protecting his family. I recall other times in history where groups offered violence as a means to impose an economic boycott. Much like similar groups that violently disrupted speakers at college campuses who disagreed with their views. Those groups started small but had an increasingly chilling effect on the societies of their time.

I see nothing wrong with fighting even the tendency of such activity from the beginning. I would rather have such a struggle led by an uncouth loudmouth than not fought at all. The leftist response to anyone supporting the President in any way has had violent tendencies. This was true at Berkeley and at rallies during the election.

If shaming those retailers into not caving into potential leftist threats works, that is a strike against those violent lefty MFs. Here, here!
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by The E   » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:13 am

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PeterZ wrote:I see nothing wrong with fighting even the tendency of such activity from the beginning. I would rather have such a struggle led by an uncouth loudmouth than not fought at all. The leftist response to anyone supporting the President in any way has had violent tendencies. This was true at Berkeley and at rallies during the election.


I'll remind you of this the next time you conservatives decide to boycott something.

Well, I'll try, anyway. Maybe you'll even read it (but seeing how you are afraid of people disagreeing with you, I am not getting my hopes up).

If shaming those retailers into not caving into potential leftist threats works, that is a strike against those violent lefty MFs. Here, here!


What business does the President of the United States have involving himself in business decisions that have literally nothing to do with the US' national interests? This isn't some company deciding to undermine a trade embargo, it's a company deciding to cancel a business relationship with another corporate entity. What overriding national interest is served by POTUS getting involved here?

EDIT:

Aaaand here's Spicer claiming that this decision by Nordstrom is an attack on both the President and Ivanka Trump. Even if the decision to remove Ivanka's products from Nordstrom's shelves was entirely political (Nordstrom claims it's due to those products underperforming), that's squarely within the realm of acceptable political commentary. Calling this an "attack" is hyperbole. What's next, is criticizing the president for skipping out of an intelligence briefing to tweet inane bullshit going to be called an assassination attempt? Will the next comedian to make fun of Trump's tiny hands be guilty of war crimes?
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