US Presidential Candidates

Annachie wrote:Both.
Though I also favour a federal IRS that collects all the taxes and hands the states portions back.
Of course that complicates things slightly with them having to look at 51 sets of state sales taxes, but then I also favour a flat consumption(?) tax too.
(Same sales tax on everything sold at the retail point)

So you would have the states collect taxes and send them to the federal government, which piles it all up and then parcels it back out to the states.

A perfect recipe for monumental waste and corruption -- which we already have to a somewhat smaller extent. Every state scrambling to get more of that 'federal' money, which is really other states' money.

And of course it also gives the federal government power over the states outside of the Constitution. The Founders never envisioned such insanity.

2 levels of IRS seems wasteful.

Oh, it is, it is...

Why should we be penalized for earning money? Why should we have to spend tens of hours, or hundreds of dollars, to figure out how much tax we have to pay every year? Why should there be a gigantic and terrifying bureaucracy to collect it all? (If you think it's not terrifying, mention 'audit' to the average taxpayer)

Consumption taxes are a less odious alternative. In addition, they can be tailored toward unnecessary consumption. Everybody needs food; not everybody needs caviar. Most people need a car; very few need a Ferrari. And so on.
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If you tried to run a business the way they run the government, you would be in jail or the poor-house within six months.

Seems to work everywhere in the developed world, bar the USA.
Most have a combination of taxes. Ours include income, company, consumption (10% GST), and too many petty ones that cost as much to collect as we get. When our national consumption tax came in we dropped sales tax, but the states were supposed to abolish stamp duty, which they didn't.
Personally I hate tax, but as it is inevitable it may as well be as fair as possible, so a combination of progressive income tax with a consumption tax seems to be optimal.

Imaginos1892 wrote:

Annachie wrote:Both.
Though I also favour a federal IRS that collects all the taxes and hands the states portions back.
Of course that complicates things slightly with them having to look at 51 sets of state sales taxes, but then I also favour a flat consumption(?) tax too.
(Same sales tax on everything sold at the retail point)

So you would have the states collect taxes and send them to the federal government, which piles it all up and then parcels it back out to the states.

A perfect recipe for monumental waste and corruption -- which we already have to a somewhat smaller extent. Every state scrambling to get more of that 'federal' money, which is really other states' money.

And of course it also gives the federal government power over the states outside of the Constitution. The Founders never envisioned such insanity.

2 levels of IRS seems wasteful.

Oh, it is, it is...

Why should we be penalized for earning money? Why should we have to spend tens of hours, or hundreds of dollars, to figure out how much tax we have to pay every year? Why should there be a gigantic and terrifying bureaucracy to collect it all? (If you think it's not terrifying, mention 'audit' to the average taxpayer)

Consumption taxes are a less odious alternative. In addition, they can be tailored toward unnecessary consumption. Everybody needs food; not everybody needs caviar. Most people need a car; very few need a Ferrari. And so on.
-------------------
If you tried to run a business the way they run the government, you would be in jail or the poor-house within six months.

The election has been over since Nov 2016. Seems like the topic of this tread has ceased to be current with what is currently happening.

Freedom of Speech is only for the extreme left and not the right according to those rioting in Berkley, CA. Perhaps this would be a subject of a new topic.

Imaginos, you really did grab the wrong end of the stick.

I'd get rid of state IRS's.
Actually it can be done within the constitution too. Well, maybe some amending at the state level.
The various states contract the fed IRS to do the collecting.


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The left and the Democrats are sinking to new lows. What they are doing in a coordinated fashion is trying to make Trump look bad and like buffoon. The Progressives are using their own people within the administration to make him look back. Let's start with EO for immigration. The EO was known about for a few weeks. Oh when the EO was announced...surprise!...protest groups are at the airports within the hour! FYI: protests at airports require city permits and that takes time because that has to be cleared with some Federal Agencies. So the little put up job and the acting attorney general resigns...(she turned in her resignation but Trump's ego would not let her resign, so he fired her.) Two, the selective leaking of phone conversations between world leaders. If you can call Australia a word leader! (Relax Daryl that was a joke besides my relatives down under would kill me if I was serious!) Third, UC Berkeley protestors show up to demonstration with bats and masks...I think I beginning to smell a rat. Where are the arrests and charges for rioting! Yeah that is a state controlled entirely by the Dems! Fourth, the democrats now NOT showing up for committee meetings to vote on Trump's cabinet nominees! Very classless move and not appropriate for leaders of Congress. Having Hollywood celebrities call for the bombing of the White House and armed insurrection. (Were not the Dem's the ones that want Gun Control.) What the Dem's are doing could cause a civil war down the road. It's hard to put the Genie back in the lantern once unleashed!

I think the Dem's are for shock at the voter booth come 2 years from now! Let him fail on his on would be the best tactic. These type of tactics will cause a democratic massacre at voting ballots. Besides 20% of the Dem's base being happy...do you think the rest of America is happy with the what Dem's are doing! Remember...many people on both sides of the aisle were extremely unhappy with what happened in Ferguson and Baltimore!

smr wrote:The left and the Democrats are sinking to new lows. What they are doing in a coordinated fashion is trying to make Trump look bad and like buffoon.

There's very little "trying" involved. Simply reporting and contextualizing what the Trumpenführer and his handlers are doing is enough.

The Progressives are using their own people within the administration to make him look back.

Ah yes, "the progressives". It can't be a bunch of people who are just acting in accordance with their conscience, no, it's "the progressives", which totally are a coherent and coordinated group.

Conspiracy theories are fun, but rarely truthful; a lesson which I see you have not learned yet.

Let's start with EO for immigration. The EO was known about for a few weeks. Oh when the EO was announced...surprise!...protest groups are at the airports within the hour! FYI: protests at airports require city permits and that takes time because that has to be cleared with some Federal Agencies.

OR, and just hear me out here, these things can happen spontaneously, without any sort of permits.

So the little put up job and the acting attorney general resigns...(she turned in her resignation but Trump's ego would not let her resign, so he fired her.) Two, the selective leaking of phone conversations between world leaders. If you can call Australia a word leader! (Relax Daryl that was a joke besides my relatives down under would kill me if I was serious!) Third, UC Berkeley protestors show up to demonstration with bats and masks...I think I beginning to smell a rat.

Well, last time that rat Yiannopoulis had a speaking gig, one of his supporters shot a protester. So, not exactly an unprecedented thing here.

Where are the arrests and charges for rioting! Yeah that is a state controlled entirely by the Dems! Fourth, the democrats now NOT showing up for committee meetings to vote on Trump's cabinet nominees! Very classless move and not appropriate for leaders of Congress.

About as classless as the Republicans refusing to confirm democrat nominees, but acknowledging that would mean acknowledging your hypocrisy, doesn't it.

Having Hollywood celebrities call for the bombing of the White House and armed insurrection. (Were not the Dem's the ones that want Gun Control.) What the Dem's are doing could cause a civil war down the road. It's hard to put the Genie back in the lantern once unleashed!

This is your reminder that there are a lot of voices on your side of the fence who, prior to the election, stated that they would riot if Clinton won. Or Trump's attempts to delegitimize the elections ("millions of illegal votes" and similar statements without basis in reality).

I think the Dem's are for shock at the voter booth come 2 years from now! Let him fail on his on would be the best tactic.

It would also be pretty stupid. If you see someone about to cause damage, the best course of action is to stop them, not let them do something hard to repair.

These type of tactics will cause a democratic massacre at voting ballots. Besides 20% of the Dem's base being happy...do you think the rest of America is happy with the what Dem's are doing! Remember...many people on both sides of the aisle were extremely unhappy with what happened in Ferguson and Baltimore!

And even more people are unhappy with the Trumpenführer right now.

Senior Chief wrote:The election has been over since Nov 2016. Seems like the topic of this tread has ceased to be current with what is currently happening.

Freedom of Speech is only for the extreme left and not the right according to those rioting in Berkley, CA. Perhaps this would be a subject of a new topic.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2017/2/02/president-takes-twitter-defend-hate-speech

Berkley charged the group sponsoring an immigrant gay, Jewish speaker a fee for security to protect against violence. They allowed the speaker to schedule his appearance. Then they simply stood back and allowed the violence to happen. I believe Berkley refunded the security fee after the riot.

All the while the speaker is being slandered on television and libeled online as a white supremacist engaging in hate speech. What a crock of sh*t!

Even if all the erroneous claims were true, he would still have a right to engage in that speech and Berkley has a responsibility as an arm of the local government to defend that right. I wish the President would withhold federal funds from Berkley and/or the UC system. No more grants to research social idiocies or better yet withhold funding for student loans until they actually defend their students First Amendment rights.

PeterZ wrote:All the while the speaker is being slandered on television and libeled online as a white supremacist engaging in hate speech. What a crock of sh*t!

That's because he is one.

Or, more precisely, he's an idiot whose only real skill is to get people riled up; he's an internet troll who has discovered that conservative people will shower him with money and praise as long as he's saying things they agree with, but aren't brave enough to say.

Here's him in a nutshell:

Even if all the erroneous claims were true, he would still have a right to engage in that speech and Berkley has a responsibility as an arm of the local government to defend that right.

No, they do not (They're not "an arm of the local government").

I wish the President would withhold federal funds from Berkley and/or the UC system. No more grants to research social idiocies or better yet withhold funding for student loans until they actually defend their students First Amendment rights.

What about the first amendment right to protest against speakers? Is that also protected?

Last time I checked, the definition of 'protest' did not include vandalism, arson and assault. I found those under 'rioting' which is illegal. I saw one 'protester' pepper-spray a young woman on camera for wearing a hat.

Does nobody see the insanity, the downright idiocy, of 'supporting free speech' by opposing words with violence? Do these jackasses not have two functioning brain cells to rub together and see what they're doing?

These are the things you see in some third-world shithole just before they overthrow the government.
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'Equality' does not mean forcing everybody to be just like you.

Imaginos1892 wrote:Last time I checked, the definition of 'protest' did not include vandalism, arson and assault. I found those under 'rioting' which is illegal. I saw one 'protester' pepper-spray a young woman on camera for wearing a hat.

Does nobody see the insanity, the downright idiocy, of 'supporting free speech' by opposing words with violence? Do these jackasses not have two functioning brain cells to rub together and see what they're doing?

These are the things you see in some third-world shithole just before they overthrow the government.
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'Equality' does not mean forcing everybody to be just like you.

This is not protected under the First Amendment. If this isn't a case of successfully inciting a riot/violence, nothing is.