US Presidential Candidates

biochem wrote:If democrats genuinely believe that an investigation of voter fraud will result in minimal findings, why are they so upset?

They should be cheering him on and laugh when he finds next to nothing!

You actually think any investigation which Trump has ANY kind of involvement with, will find anything other than what Trump wants it to find?

Oh yeah, wow, what a surprise the primary targets don´t like the idea of someone setting them up for witchhunts. Amazing.

Did Bernie ever join the Democrat party?

Also, the GOP treated outsider Trump pretty much the same as the DNC treated outsider Bernie.
Hell, they treated him much worse.
At least Trump was a party member, if not currently one.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

PeterZ wrote:As I recall Wikileaks had emails from Wassweman-Schultz indicating the DNC had a pro Clinton bias and was acting upon it. One of the reasons she lost her job shortly after the convention. Don't want to look up the particulars at the moment.

PeterZ wrote:That's my core point. It seemed no one in politics read the electorate or their respective parties as well as Trump. Bernie had the pulse of the Dem primary electorate, but was hapless to counter the DNC. Hillary had the DNC in the bag, but was out of touch with the voters.

The emails in question were largely from April, IIRC (EDIT: mid-May). After early March, Sanders was pretty much done - most other candidates would have likely conceded at that point. To win afterwards, he had to be able to achieve increasingly unlikely win margins, which he consistently failed to do. In addition, at the same time he was publicly attacking the DNC itself. So the emails seem to be a bunch of officials who were frustrated at both his attacks and his dragging the campaign on for no purpose, making it harder for the general, bitching. They resigned/were fired for being unprofessional and to try to appease Sanders' supporters, but despite all the complaints about how the rigged the election no-one has been able to show said emails actually resulted in any concrete actions or even public statements.

Trump bypassed the RNC again and again to get the nomination. He turned the debates away from a contest of who could articulate better into who could successfully engage in a bare-knuckle brawl.

Hillary took the bait and engaged in that same sort of contest. I truly believe if she focused on articulating policy, she would have won. Now, the left is continuing Hillary's folly. You guys appear unable to ignore these irrelevancies of crowd size and other side issues to direct attacks upon the man personally. No one who either didn't vote or voted for Trump cares. Well at least not enough to matter.

The answer to your question is that the DNC believed having the media as it's propaganda arm would be enough to defeat Trump. They were wrong.

Your two points - that Clinton failed to articulate policy and that the media served as the Democrats' propoganda arm - are somewhat in opposition. I'm on a whole different land mass and I still saw Clinton describe policies. The media, instead, preferred to talk about scandals on both sides (which is not to say she couldn't have pushed harder) - and frankly it seems that the bulk of the voting public doesn't really care about policy as such.

biochem wrote:If democrats genuinely believe that an investigation of voter fraud will result in minimal findings, why are they so upset?

They should be cheering him on and laugh when he finds next to nothing!

Consider:

1) Until recently, Trump (and the GOP in general) was strongly against any investigation of the election results. Remember how they hampered and blocked the recounts started by Stein. Trump only started expressing concern when he discovered he lost the popular vote by millions. It should be noted that even his own party isn't really advancing this, especially not to the dimensions he claims - see comments by Ryan (who doesn't object to an investigation but doesn't believe the number were anywhere near as high Trump claims) or Graham, for instance.
2) There have been implications that the investigation will be largely focused on the states which Trump lost.

Given that, as well as things like the Benghazi investigations, Democrats could be excused for suspecting that the investigation isn't going to be done cleanly . And given his recent conduct, do you believe that Trump would have a problem proclaiming there was massive fraud regardless of the actual results and pushing for increasing restrictions on voters (all in the name of preventing fraud, of course), which just so happens to affect primarily sttes and demographics which favor the Democrats?

Annachie wrote:Did Bernie ever join the Democrat party?

Also, the GOP treated outsider Trump pretty much the same as the DNC treated outsider Bernie.
Hell, they treated him much worse.
At least Trump was a party member, if not currently one.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

He joined the party and after the primary left (he said he was elected as an Independent and would remain such until his current term ended).

Trump is the modern Wizard of Oz. Smoke and mirrors to distract the masses and entertain them. Mockwitch hunts and outrageous pronouncements whose only purpose is to keep everyone off balance. Let Chaos Reign.

Eyal,

Upon reflection you are correct the DNC staffers didn't materially aide Clinton vs. Sanders. They simply showed the poor grace of rooting for her in a manner that could be made public. She beat Sanders fair and square. She went on to lose to Trump fair and square.

I disagree that she articulated her policies well. Too often in debates she spent time attacking Trump as unfit, having poor judgement and regaling us on his with all the his statements she deemed damning. Addressing policy issues she referred the voters to her website. Of course, she may well have articulated her policies with sufficiently clarity. If true, this argues the past 8 years of Obama were being repudiated by most people in the US who didn't live in big cities.

No matter how you look at it, she did not read the electorate well. She read them so poorly, she accepted a strategy personal attack and spent a fortune on paid media. Stepped into his wheelhouse and turned the election into an insult contest where both candidates were hammered into tarnished personalities. That equalized each in the view of the average undecided/independent/largely non-political voter outside the big cities.

True. Ish.

Preselections weren't fair. Insider vs outsider was not going to be fair.

Trump, however rephrased the election as a propaganda war and beat the unprepared.
Then managed to do the same in the real election.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

If I may be allowed to revisit the voter rolls controversy again. It is a virtually baseless conspiracy theory. And like all conspiracy theories, it will never go away.

Just look at the Birther phenomenon. It got kicked out of court (Dononfrio v Wells)and got refused a rehearing all the way to the Supreme C ourt because they failed to provide any evidence that Obama was not a natural-born citizen. yet somehow it never seemed to die.

But, yes, by all means go on a witch hunt through all the Democrat state voter rolls. No point in going through the ones controlled by Republicans, we know those are squeaky clean.

WeirdlyWired wrote:If I may be allowed to revisit the voter rolls controversy again. It is a virtually baseless conspiracy theory. And like all conspiracy theories, it will never go away.

Just look at the Birther phenomenon. It got kicked out of court (Dononfrio v Wells)and got refused a rehearing all the way to the Supreme C ourt because they failed to provide any evidence that Obama was not a natural-born citizen. yet somehow it never seemed to die.

But, yes, by all means go on a witch hunt through all the Democrat state voter rolls. No point in going through the ones controlled by Republicans, we know those are squeaky clean.

I doubt that the media will let the administration get away with a one sided investigation. There are too many voters on both sides who would support a complete investigation. On the GOP side, we know that sort of corruption strengthens our elites/establishment. Just got done supporting an overturning of our establishment. Now is the time to dismantle more of their works.

PeterZ wrote:I doubt that the media will let the administration get away with a one sided investigation. There are too many voters on both sides who would support a complete investigation. On the GOP side, we know that sort of corruption strengthens our elites/establishment. Just got done supporting an overturning of our establishment. Now is the time to dismantle more of their works.

Do you even realize how incoherent that is? "The media won't let Trump get away with it?" When the most successful aspect of Trump's platform was that the media always lies?

Face it. You put someone into office who is replaying the good old NSDAP playbook step by step, and you're cheering him on.

WeirdlyWired wrote:Trump is the modern Wizard of Oz. Smoke and mirrors to distract the masses and entertain them. Mockwitch hunts and outrageous pronouncements whose only purpose is to keep everyone off balance. Let Chaos Reign.

Not quite. He is an elitists take on what he sees is going on.
http://thefutureprimaeval.net/the-overton-bubble/