US Presidential Candidates

The E wrote:

biochem wrote:1. Take him seriously not literally

Which would be fine except he can't be counted on to tell the truth about anything. It's impossible to take him seriously when he contradicts himself all the time.

And that in part is why none of the experts believed he'd get even 10% of the vote. Like him or not, take the man seriously. Look for general themes and remember the details are negotiable

2. Ask Ivanka, Jared or Kellyanne or someone else he trusts to talk to him

Which translates to "Hope that these three unelected people will agree with you on what the best policy for the country is and that they manage to get to the Trump before any of the other advisors". Yeah, this sounds like it will be no problem at all!

He's never listened to more than a small handful of people and now he is so paranoid it is worse. But to be fair to him, everyone actually is out to get him.

3. Recognize the fact that his management preference is to hire good people and let them run things which means that congress can work directly with the cabinet.

Which would be fine except the skills he seems to value most is "agreeing with me".

Actually it is closer to loyal to me rather than agree with me

4. Recognize that he will sign most of Congress's wish list if they let him take the credit

Assuming that the caveats above would not be an issue, sure.

5. Realize that although he's not a conservative, he'll be on their side if they treat him with respect. He craves respect and the Democrats are making this one easy by acting like deranged lunatics

Yes, granting respect to someone singularly undeserving of it is a fine idea.

In the practical reality of politics, yes it is a good idea. He is president and he has that power if you want your agenda signed practical reality is that you give him the appearance of respect. Brush up on acting skills if necessary.

6. Take him at his word that everything he says is the opening position in a negotiation and that he expects to compromise

Would be fine, if he wasn't lying through his teeth all the time.

Actually proposed policies are future events, you may not like him or agree with his proposals but accusing him of lying about them isn't a very effective way of negotiating

They're not going to take the risk of a republican civil war with the 30% of Republicans that like him.

Why not? Cutting out a minority from the decision-making process is something Republicans are really really good at.

And contempt for republicans is an ineffective way of persuading them. Donald Trump is part of a larger problem for the Democrats. They've also lost the house, senate, most of the governorships and just under 2/3 of the state legislatures (to completely stress out the liberals, think about your worst case scenario if the Republicans cross that magic 2/3 line)

An assassination attempt is a strong possibility. There are a fairly significant number of Trump haters that seem to have crossed the line into the truly deranged. However I don't think it will be a success. I have confidence in the secret service.

An assassination attempt is always "a strorng possibility". Or did the past 8 years of Obama-hate not happen in your world?

The sufferers of Obama derangement syndrome appear to be all talk and no action. They spent most of their time inventing conspiracy theories on the Internet and talk radio but never gave me the impression that they were physically dangerous.

The anti Trump loons are violent, they have been physically attacking people on the streets. And have you seen the nut cases in the far left media? They aren't just inventing conspiracy theories and blathering, they are calling for the violent overthrow of the federal government

biochem wrote:And that in part is why none of the experts believed he'd get even 10% of the vote. Like him or not, take the man seriously. Look for general themes and remember the details are negotiable

But who are you negotiating with? Trump? His family? Pence? O'Bannon? A random guy on Twitter?

He's never listened to more than a small handful of people and now he is so paranoid it is worse. But to be fair to him, everyone actually is out to get him.

He's the President. If he can't take some serious pushback from people who disagree with him, he's the wrong person for the job.

Yes, everyone is out to get him. Just like everyone was out to get Obama, Bush, Clinton or any other POTUS you care to name.

Actually it is closer to loyal to me rather than agree with me

Not sure there's that much of a difference between those two things.

Actually proposed policies are future events, you may not like him or agree with his proposals but accusing him of lying about them isn't a very effective way of negotiating

Dude, he and his team are on the record as spreading lies and misrepresentations all through the election campaign. Kellyanne Conway was recently in the media defending their use of what she called "alternative facts". To call the Trump administration liars is completely accurate.

And contempt for republicans is an ineffective way of persuading them. Donald Trump is part of a larger problem for the Democrats. They've also lost the house, senate, most of the governorships and just under 2/3 of the state legislatures (to completely stress out the liberals, think about your worst case scenario if the Republicans cross that magic 2/3 line)

I'm sorry, but contempt is pretty much all that one can have for the members of a party who let themselves be bullied into putting a moron like Trump into the White House. This is their failure.

The sufferers of Obama derangement syndrome appear to be all talk and no action. They spent most of their time inventing conspiracy theories on the Internet and talk radio but never gave me the impression that they were physically dangerous.

The anti Trump loons are violent, they have been physically attacking people on the streets. And have you seen the nut cases in the far left media? They aren't just inventing conspiracy theories and blathering, they are calling for the violent overthrow of the federal government

So the right-wing nutcases are all talk and no action, but the left-wing ones are dangerous and need to be stopped?

I'm sorry, did you forget about all the right-wing people talking about a violent overthrowing of the government?

I think you'll find that we've spent the last 8 or 9 years listening to far right nutters threatening the violent overthrow of the US government, and actually seen a couple of attempts at it.

Besides, if they're smart they're going to shoot Pence not Trump.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

He's never listened to more than a small handful of people and now he is so paranoid it is worse. But to be fair to him, everyone actually is out to get him.

He's never listened to more than a small handful of people and now he is so paranoid it is worse.

Sounds great, like Stalin in the 50s. I´m sure that will go so well.

Trump lies that all I hear about...

Hmm...I know lets that talk about the lies of obamacare.
where going to keep insurance affordable! Yeah that's why my premium is 3x the cost before obamacare! I switched over to the VA. I get to keep my doctor....wrong! Being forced to pay for abortions when that was not part of obamacare. I could for days on lies that are told to us.

So quit crying and start living life. Suck it up and realize their are going to be other elections that are going to be won or lost. Live life with zest and if the President is an idiot let him prove the allegation by actions while in office. Please quit crying that HRC won the popular vote...last time I checked a person had to win the electoral college vote. (Both sides knew that fact when they started campaigning!)

Either prove that the Russians hacked the election or shut the heck up! Breaking news...you can't prove that the Russians hacked the election...shut the hell up on that issue. Folk, wars have been fought over issues like that. Throwing around atomic weapons and biological weapons are never a good idea! You know you are in trouble when I sound like the voice of reason!

biochem wrote:Wishful thinking. Congress is learning out to manage him. The keys are:

1. Take him seriously not literally
2. Ask Ivanka, Jared or Kellyanne or someone else he trusts to talk to him
3. Recognize the fact that his management preference is to hire good people and let them run things which means that congress can work directly with the cabinet.
4. Recognize that he will sign most of Congress's wish list if they let him take the credit
5. Realize that although he's not a conservative, he'll be on their side if they treat him with respect. He craves respect and the Democrats are making this one easy by acting like deranged lunatics
6. Take him at his word that everything he says is the opening position in a negotiation and that he expects to compromise

It's kind of ironic...Americans - American conservatives in particular - like to present themselves as staunch (small "r") republicans - to a fault even. And yet the list you gave above seems more fitting to a conversation out of an historical/fantasy story regarding how to deal with a mad king. The thing is, with monarchs you're kind of stuck with the luck of the draw; Trump, you chose.

More specifically:

Take him seriously not literally

What does this even mean? Especially since Trump's policy proposals are vague as hell (for example, with ACA repeal looming, all we know about his supposed health care plan is that it's "Great" and has low deductibles).

Recognize the fact that his management preference is to hire good people and let them run things which means that congress can work directly with the cabinet.

Which is why even the Republican-controlled legislature is having a hard time choking down many of his picks? NTM that he doesn't seem to have understood how many people he needs to appoint...

They're not going to take the risk of a republican civil war with the 30% of Republicans that like him.

Not ATM. If Trump's popularity flags, however - and that's pretty much inevitable, given that he has historically low popularity during the time which is a high point (not necessarily the peak) for most presidents - they'll turn on him in a heartbeat.

biochem wrote:And contempt for republicans is an ineffective way of persuading them. Donald Trump is part of a larger problem for the Democrats. They've also lost the house, senate, most of the governorships and just under 2/3 of the state legislatures (to completely stress out the liberals, think about your worst case scenario if the Republicans cross that magic 2/3 line)

This may well be interesting. For the first time in a decade or so, the Republicans can't give their ideology free rein while relying on the Democrats to shoot down their more outlandish proposals and thus take the blame for their failures. While this mean we'll be denied surreal spectacles of McConnel filibustering his own bill or Republicans voting down their own bills, but they'll finally need to be accountable. We'll see how that goes.

smr wrote:Trump lies that all I hear about...

Hmm...I know lets that talk about the lies of obamacare.
where going to keep insurance affordable! Yeah that's why my premium is 3x the cost before obamacare! I switched over to the VA. I get to keep my doctor....wrong! Being forced to pay for abortions when that was not part of obamacare. I could for days on lies that are told to us.

The thing is - most politicians lie about things where you can expect them to lie about or at least understand why they're doing it. They'll play up the pros of their policies while downplaying or denying the cons, or deny scandals they're involved in, etc...

Trump and his team will lie about things when there are clear and immediately available facts to the contrary; and worse, about things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. He could have just ignored the whole attendance issue; instead, he had Spicer get up, berate the press, and blatantly lie - which makes Trump specifically and the US government in general look like idiots and basically shoots the credibility of White House press releases in the head starting right out of the gate.

Eyal, you make good points. One I liked was how you can be outrageous in your promises if you know they won't get through. A PM of ours promised hard line employment laws knowing the Senate would block them. Then he made the mistake of winning the Senate, lost big time next election.
We are in for an intrresting time. I wonder if he gets frustrated enough he may resign, having proved that he could win but not really being interested in the hum drum of political negotiations.

Eyal wrote: [massive snip]
Trump and his team will lie about things when there are clear and immediately available facts to the contrary; and worse, about things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. He could have just ignored the whole attendance issue; instead, he had Spicer get up, berate the press, and blatantly lie - which makes Trump specifically and the US government in general look like idiots and basically shoots the credibility of White House press releases in the head starting right out of the gate.

Ooooh,my head hurts. What is this alternative facts thing? is that like propaganda?ot double think (1984) or realfacts (Bab 5)

What is this take him seriously, not literally? How can you trust a person who never speaks the truth? I'm getting a bad case of cognative dissonance here. All you can do is watch what he does and quit trying to correlate his words and actions. So far he has made it harder for people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance, which should make premiums cheaper for everyone else. he raised taxes on the lower income groups, he made it more expensive to buy a house.

Looking out for the little guy.

Daryl wrote:Eyal, you make good points. One I liked was how you can be outrageous in your promises if you know they won't get through. A PM of ours promised hard line employment laws knowing the Senate would block them. Then he made the mistake of winning the Senate, lost big time next election.
We are in for an intrresting time. I wonder if he gets frustrated enough he may resign, having proved that he could win but not really being interested in the hum drum of political negotiations.

Sounds like a cheap remake of the Alaska governorship starring Sarah Palin as Caribou "quitter" Barbie. Or maybe a cheesy sequel.

what was the name of the orangutan in Clint Eastwood's movie Any Which Way but Loose? I guess the Trumpsters would consider that comparison too racist

Clyde.

Problem with ACA is that so many people tried to sabotage it it's hard to assess not only who to blame for anuthing associated with it but even if it was working properly.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk