Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

cthia wrote:Invariably, a somewhat large portion of the introspection that I wanted to impart in this thread is that the Alignment has the technology to effect an Eridani strike with impressive ease and execution on an unprecedented and unimaginable scale. Well, I can imagine it.

If Manticore's own stealth technology enabled them to park probes close enough to the observation decks to view what was being served in the galleys, then certainly the Alignment's tech is at least a cut above. How close can the MA park a few Lenny Dets to the planet at optimum distance and vector to disable power stations, grids and other key military targets on the planet that will serve to cripple it in lieu of killing it? Communications planet-wide destroyed, moments before a supporting attack. And certainly, Mount Royal could be considered a military target.

It almost seems criminal for the Alignment not to usher in a new age of EEV. The technology and capability is in their hands as with no other navy. Because they have such unrivaled supporting technology, means that they could execute an EEV strike HUMANELY. They could rewrite the galaxy's perception of the concept.

"Because we can get in so closely—for all intents and purposes— to your planet unseen and lay doggo with our EEV strike computers running at maximum capacity, we can pinpoint your critical planetary arteries and sever them with ease. Our computers, meticulously and without error, calculate the reaction times of your ships in the vicinity of each launch. Resistance is futile."

When the galaxy hears the news, they'd be appalled, then stunned that all of their friends and loved ones are still alive. This was a humane strike, the act of a humane adversary. But then...

cthia wrote:Because, iinm (please correct me if I am), their technology hides an entire ship under power. IINM again (please correct me again), GA tech cannot do that. GA tech can hide a ship lying doggo. And with the Lenny Dees, they will be hiding a much larger ship. The fact that the MAlign turned the concept on its head and factored in the development of a propulsion system to be instrumental in the overall stealth design is besides the point. The overarching factor is the absolute accomplishment of the total stealth of a warship, not the total tech consumed by the objective.

cthia wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:
Manticoran tech can hide a reccon drone moving into position and shadowing an enemy ship/formation; that implies that Manticoran tech can hide an active impeller wedge.

No Harold. It doesn't imply that. Hiding a recon drone and hiding a much larger ship under power is two different balls of wax.

The Manticorans always resorted to tactics which includes concealing Honor's ships by positioning other wedges in front of hers. They can NOT hide a ship's wedge under power. They can play tricks with it, to make it appear as a different class of ship. But they can not hide it. And they certainly cannot enter a system undetected. Unless the books I've read is missing a chapter or two.

Flag in Exile wrote:Of course, Manty stealth systems were good. They were 5.9 light-minutes back, and the Manties had proven in the fighting around Nightingale and Trevor's Star that they could hide low-powered impeller wedges from the PN's sensors at as little as six light-minutes. That meant it was possible they'd been here all along, creeping in under cover of their EW in an effort to ambush him as he ran into their arms on his way out

Ashes of Victory wrote:But at Third Yeltsin, Earl White Haven used his stealth systems and low-powered wedges to keep the Peeps from seeing his additional units at all.

Ashes of Victory wrote:Their acceleration had been held down to a leisurely four hundred and fifty gravities to help the efficiency of their stealth systems.

WeirdlyWired wrote:Sorry, just too lazy to try to find the book and page. but aren't the MAN stealth systems able to disguise all but a bit of the waste heat signature, which it is able to vent way from sensors. which would be defeated if it passed between two enemy ships? That sounds at least marginally better than Manty stealth.

WeirdlyWired wrote:Sorry, just too lazy to try to find the book and page. but aren't the MAN stealth systems able to disguise all but a bit of the waste heat signature, which it is able to vent way from sensors. which would be defeated if it passed between two enemy ships? That sounds at least marginally better than Manty stealth.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Invariably, a somewhat large portion of the introspection that I wanted to impart in this thread is that the Alignment has the technology to effect an Eridani strike with impressive ease and execution on an unprecedented and unimaginable scale. Well, I can imagine it.

If Manticore's own stealth technology enabled them to park probes close enough to the observation decks to view what was being served in the galleys, then certainly the Alignment's tech is at least a cut above. How close can the MA park a few Lenny Dets to the planet at optimum distance and vector to disable power stations, grids and other key military targets on the planet that will serve to cripple it in lieu of killing it? Communications planet-wide destroyed, moments before a supporting attack. And certainly, Mount Royal could be considered a military target.

It almost seems criminal for the Alignment not to usher in a new age of EEV. The technology and capability is in their hands as with no other navy. Because they have such unrivaled supporting technology, means that they could execute an EEV strike HUMANELY. They could rewrite the galaxy's perception of the concept.

"Because we can get in so closely—for all intents and purposes— to your planet unseen and lay doggo with our EEV strike computers running at maximum capacity, we can pinpoint your critical planetary arteries and sever them with ease. Our computers, meticulously and without error, calculate the reaction times of your ships in the vicinity of each launch. Resistance is futile."

When the galaxy hears the news, they'd be appalled, then stunned that all of their friends and loved ones are still alive. This was a humane strike, the act of a humane adversary. But then...

Um, as long as the MALign asked the planet to surrender first none of the bombardment you're talking about appears to be a violation of the Eridani Edict. So it's not a "humane EEV strike"; because it's not a EE violation at all.

If your fleet is in the planet's orbitals and can't be driven off (in this case because they're essentially invisible) the planet is supposed to surrender. If they don't your fleet is allowed to bombard and and all military targets until they do. [David elaborated on this over 10 years ago here
That includes:
* Military units
* Weapons emplacements
* Power plants supporting weapons or bases
* Communicaion facilities used to coordinate / control military or weaons
* Government facilities / personnel that provide civilian control of the military
And there's no "human shields" allowed by the Edict - if you plant your government, military headquarters, or missile defense battery in the middle of a major city then it's your fault it gets bombarded (causing civilian megadeaths) because you wouldn't surrender when your enemy took the orbitals.

munroburton wrote:One of the ships gets on the com and calls the government of the planet. "Surrender. We have 100 invisible warships in orbit."

"No."

It is now legal to bombard.

A merciful invader would simply carry out a limited strike with that one ship, to demonstrate capability, intent and will. Even if the defenders were able to trace and destroy that ship, there'd be another 99.

A less merciful conqueror would simply start shooting until their victim surrendered. Or didn't exist anymore.

munroburton wrote:If Manticore can't hide low-power wedges, along with their warships, then how did the DDs scouting Haven's systems(mainly between Solon & Lovat) manage to complete their missions?

There are numerous other instances in textev where warships running with low powered wedges manage to avoid detection for some time.

And whilst textev has told us that the MA can't detect their own spider drives at ranges of above a light second(300,000km), this was in reference to passive sensors - ie, gravitics. It did not include active sensors(LIDAR), which is normally effective up to a million kilometres.

The GA may not be able to cover an entire star system with LIDAR, but they should be able to cover a dozen million kilometres of space in any direction with active search platforms - enough to protect a planet and its orbitals.

The MA had only one shot at Manticore. They failed to make it quickly enough, to catch the RMN's new Apollo-capable construction. They failed again when their entire plan relied on Haven and Manticore remaining at war and they ended up allying. Now the MA can't even carry out an Oyster Bay II against Haven or New Berlin.

Operation Oyster Bay? More like Operation Neobarbarossa.

John Prigent wrote:Thinking about designated successors, I suddenly wondered: are the commanders of US Antarctic bases on the list? And if not, why not? They're the most likely to survive a decapitation strike.

Cheers, John