So now that we are through the manditory filler books.....

I just got done listening tot he Bean Pod cast interview with David. I got the impression there is going to be a few more books before the main book story line comes back around. I do not consider these books filler. They are their own stand alone stories always have been. It is just they were parallel tot the main story and I think they got a little out of hand. I have a feeling David didn't intend to go this route. I think he just intended to do maybe one or 2 books and then get back to business with Honor. But as all things I think his muse got the better of him and he went more in-depth then he had intended to do. I could be wrong this may have been his plan all along. But we know he has intended to kill Honor off in At All Costs and let her kids finish the story. But do to an over site with Eric Flint he had to scrap that idea and advice his time lines a bit. But I will be glad when he does come back to the main story. I have also heard he plans to write And Alfred Harringtons Military Career. That ought to be awesome as well I hope he can do that one.

"War Porn" is a phrase of David Weber. It refers to combat pretty much for to purpose of having combat, with no risk to the protagonists. I'd cite an actual quote by David on this, but the search engine here sucks and all the topics returned by a google search have been deleted.

Loren Pechtel wrote:

George J. Smith wrote:(4) The SL CNO has already determined that the SLN cannot face up to the GA, and has decided on commerce raiding tactics instead.

Any other GA targets I agree, but the idea of the Beowulf strike is they can't defend it now.

IIRC 6 months from the royal wedding (Feb, 1922) to 100% coverage of Sigma Draconis (Beowulf's star system)by Mycroft defense. Also Beowulf is theGA manufacturer of Keyhole-two platforms. End of SoV is Oct. 1922 (p707). If that strike hasn't happened by the end of SoV, I see more war porn on the horizon.

And we all know where commerce raiding is going to go. SEM may have little experience in commerce raiding , but the RoH certainly does. And Silesian pirate hunting was the original way to blood SKM up and coming ships captains before the Havenite wars.

kzt wrote:"War Porn" is a phrase of David Weber. It refers to combat pretty much for to purpose of having combat, with no risk to the protagonists. I'd cite an actual quote by David on this, but the search engine here sucks and all the topics returned by a google search have been deleted.

The phrase "x porn," where x cam be pretty much anything, is something I've been seeing for the last few years. I doubt if Weber originated it.

WeirdlyWired wrote:And we all know where commerce raiding is going to go. SEM may have little experience in commerce raiding , but the RoH certainly does. And Silesian pirate hunting was the original way to blood SKM up and coming ships captains before the Havenite wars.

SEM has lots of experience in commerce raiding, simply because they've spent so many decades in the anti-commerce raiding role all they need to do is reverse their tactics. Distill all the best & smartest things they've seen pirates do over the years, and try to remember not to do the stupid things.

And RoH commerce raiding wasn't really all that great. We know they used their Q-ships in that, and there was heavy hinting they were doing some commerce raiding in the leadup to the Grayson/Masada diplomacy missions. But with the exception of Tourville's Silesia stint during the HaE era, every other case of Havenite commerce raiding we've seen went badly, and the merchies mostly get away during total destruction of their escort.

Somtaaw wrote:And RoH commerce raiding wasn't really all that great. We know they used their Q-ships in that, and there was heavy hinting they were doing some commerce raiding in the leadup to the Grayson/Masada diplomacy missions. But with the exception of Tourville's Silesia stint during the HaE era, every other case of Havenite commerce raiding we've seen went badly, and the merchies mostly get away during total destruction of their escort.

Javier Giscard is credited in textev as writing a definitive treatise on commerce raiding. The only time his treatise was applied was in the Selkar Rift and it only failed as a result of Honor and RMMS Artemis surviving to report the existence of Giscard's commerce raiders.

You also have to consider that there are three distinct "RoH Navies" -- The PRN of the Legislaturists, the PRN of the Committee of Public Safety, and the RHN of Thomas Theisman's restored Republic.

The Legislaturists used Q-Ships for commerce raiding and spying against the weak, single system star nations they targeted under the DuQuesne Plan. They used regular Navy task forces in the prelude to a Short Victorious War but their targets were the escorts as much as the convoys. Helen Zilwiki Sr's defense of the convoy was an exception to the rash of ship and convoys simply disappearing; we aren't shown those other, presumably, successful commerce raids.

Giscard's operation in Silesia was highly successful for long enough to force Honor's political enemies to nominate her for command of the few Wayfarer class ships that could be scraped up for additional commerce protection. It served its main purpose of diverting additional (and heavier) RMN resources to commerce protection in Silesia -- all for the loss of a light cruiser, a heavy cruiser, and a battle cruiser. The remainder of Giscard's task force withdrew once the operation was exposed; The RMN still had to reinforce its commerce protections because they couldn't count on the PRN withdrawing.

Tourville's task force that captured Honor wasn't really commerce raiding, they were just keeping a captured system incommunicado. Once again, the PRN withdrew once their presence was reported and the RMN diverted resources to deal with the problem.

All things considered, the RHN probably has more experience with commerce raiding as a wartime strategy than any navy in the Honorverse. Frontier Fleet may be the only Navy that even comes close, depending on often "Case Buccaneer" was implemented.

The GA doesn't really need to go commerce raiding as long as they command the wormhole termini, and they have other, higher priority, uses for the cruisers and destroyers that would be tasked with commerce raiding. (countering "Operation Janus," for example.)

Of course, we haven't seen, and are unlikely to see, true Commerce Raiding" such as Germany and the US waged in WWII with submarines. It's possible the SLN might engage in "total war" commerce raiding, where the objective is to simply destroy enemy shipping by any means necessary. But the SLN and SL need every operational freighter they can lay their hands on, so they should go for capture rather than destruction -- against unprotected ships and convoys, they have a fairly good chance.

Weird Harold wrote:All things considered, the RHN probably has more experience with commerce raiding as a wartime strategy than any navy in the Honorverse. Frontier Fleet may be the only Navy that even comes close, depending on often "Case Buccaneer" was implemented.

The RMN had a well thought out and developed commerce and raiding strategy for their BCs. But they forgot that the enemy gets a vote, and when they tried to carry it out they got their heads handed to them by the Peep rear area defense forces.

kzt wrote:The RMN had a well thought out and developed commerce and raiding strategy for their BCs. But they forgot that the enemy gets a vote, and when they tried to carry it out they got their heads handed to them by the Peep rear area defense forces.

When was this? I don't recall the RMN doing any commerce raiding, just deep penetration infrastructure raiding. Eighth Fleet went infrastructure raiding with full SD task forces, and lost a few BCs and BC(P)s but I don't recall any raids with just BCs or BC(P)s and smaller.

Weird Harold wrote:When was this? I don't recall the RMN doing any commerce raiding, just deep penetration infrastructure raiding. Eighth Fleet went infrastructure raiding with full SD task forces, and lost a few BCs and BC(P)s but I don't recall any raids with just BCs or BC(P)s and smaller.

Wrong war. And it didn't get covered because it was a disaster and Honor wasn't involved.

kzt wrote:Wrong war. And it didn't get covered because it was a disaster and Honor wasn't involved.

If it wasn't covered, how is it you know about it?