"Obsolete SDs" Waste not...

It doesn't matter HOW something is explained, all they can do is troll others by pulling excuses out of their a**es for why it can't work!

If you're such a dumba** that all you can do is think of excuses, then...

SHUT UP AND GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY OF THOSE WHO'RE TRYING TO SOLVE PROBLEMS!

cthia wrote:I'm curious about something. Perhaps someone can help.

One of the common problems I've read about "refurbishing-LOL" an SD is the problem of cutting thru deep layers of battle steel...

Why can't a specialized graser be used to cut through battle steel? In storyline a graser cuts through battle steel like a hot knife thru butter.

In the spirit of dynamiting huge chunks of a mountain away to build. Just curious why specialized grasers aren't used for that type work aren't available. I'm aware that perhaps certain projects wouldn't be ideal for it, but certainly some.

Theemile wrote:For the same reason we don't use cannon today to cut into armor, Grasers impact with immense amounts of both kinetic energy and photonic energy. The application of which tends to be destructive and less predictable than required for rebuilding and repair.

Like a machine gun cutting a car in half, it can be done, but messily and uncontrollably.

Besides, the armor is a layer cake of materials specifically designed to absorb and resist Graser bandwidths. Some of the layers are aerogels, which would be more easily removed with a spork, and others are insanely dense solids with would resist modern carbide tools and arc cutting techniques.

Jonathan_S wrote:

saber964 wrote:I believe RFC has stated more than a few times that a SLN SD is the Honorverse equivalent of a pre-dreadnaught. Now let's compare a pre-dreadnaught with a modern battleship namely;

USS Iowa (BB-4) commissioned 1895
Vs
USS Iowa (BB-61) commissioned 1943

First BB-4
Speed 17 knots
Guns 12in/35 max range 18,000 yds shell weight 975lbs both AP and HE
Armor plate steel face hardened armor not invented until 1897. Deck armor 1-2 inches belt armor 6-15 inches
Fire control visual spotting tops

BB-61
Speed 33 knots
Guns 16in/50 range 42,000 yds shell weight 2700 lbs AP 1900 lbs HC
Armor face hardened Class A and B armor plate Deck 3-10 inches belt 6-17 inches + turret face of 22 inches
Fire Control Mark 36 FCD accurate 100 ft at 30000 yds accurate to 200 ft at 40000 yds.

Now tell who is going to win? Hell I'll give you every U.S. battleship built before the commissioning of the South Carolina class which IIRC is 22 battleships.

At a strategic level the 22 pre-South Carolina class BBs probably can eke out a pyric victory against a single Iowa. Even with the hit rates the radar drive fire control of an Iowa she'd be hard pressed to disable or sink all 22 older battleships before simply running out of ammo and steaming over the horizon. (Strategic win for the survivors of the heavily battered 22 BBs who prevented the single Iowa from achieving whatever her original objective was.

The BuOrd OP 769 document says that the total number of 16" shells carried by an Iowa is 1,220; or about 135 per gun. Split across 22 targets that's a mere 6 full salvos each (54 shells); including all misses while getting on target or straddling. [54 shells * 22 targets = 1188 shells expended; leaving 32 shells, or just over 3 salvos, remaining to fire)

And unless it's a dire emergency I can't see the captain of the single Iowa closing to 5" range against the remaining BBs - at that point you risk getting mobbed despite the obsolescence of their guns and fire control.
So once you shoot yourself dry it's pretty much time to steam off to meet up with an ammo ship (or possibly back to a yard to reline your gun barrels)

Still it's an overwhelming advantage - just not quite 22:1 due to ammo and barrel life constraints.

RedBaron wrote:
Then deal with your troll infestation on here!

cthia wrote:I'm curious about something. Perhaps someone can help.

One of the common problems I've read about "refurbishing-LOL" an SD is the problem of cutting thru deep layers of battle steel...

Why can't a specialized graser be used to cut through battle steel? In storyline a graser cuts through battle steel like a hot knife thru butter.

In the spirit of dynamiting huge chunks of a mountain away to build. Just curious why specialized grasers aren't used for that type work aren't available. I'm aware that perhaps certain projects wouldn't be ideal for it, but certainly some.

zyffyr wrote:

RedBaron wrote:
Then deal with your troll infestation on here!

If you really want to end the troll infestation, just stop posting. Problem solved.

cthia wrote:I'm curious about something. Perhaps someone can help.

One of the common problems I've read about "refurbishing-LOL" an SD is the problem of cutting thru deep layers of battle steel...

Why can't a specialized graser be used to cut through battle steel? In storyline a graser cuts through battle steel like a hot knife thru butter.

In the spirit of dynamiting huge chunks of a mountain away to build. Just curious why specialized grasers aren't used for that type work aren't available. I'm aware that perhaps certain projects wouldn't be ideal for it, but certainly some.

MaxxQ wrote:Besides the reasons that Theemile gave, there's no indication in the Honorverse that a graser "beam" lasts more than a fraction of a second, the MAlign's graser torps notwithstanding (and THOSE only lasted for three seconds or so). As for a graser cutting through armor "like a hot knife through butter", it's more like cutting through drywall with a wrecking ball.

The problem I see here is that you're thinking that weapons in the HV act like what you see on something like Babylon 5, with long-lasting energy beams that cut through an enemy ship and slice off sections of the ship, when what's really happening is something more like when the Death Star beam hits Alderaan (not the beam itself, just the effect once it hits).

Battle steel isn't the armor. Battle steel is basically the framework the armor is grown or molded around. As Theemile said, warship armor is made up of several layers, each one designed to deal with different types of damage, or spread the damage out to be less effective.

Consider: To even get THROUGH that armor, you need a graser (which is more powerful than lasers) that measures in METERS in diameter at the "muzzle" of the emitter. A smaller graser, that MIGHT last more than a few seconds (if any exist in the HV) that could cut with a closer semblance to precision than a tolerance of meters wouldn't be powerful enough to even scorch the paint, let alone cut through the armor. It's the same argument against using "controlled wedges" to cut through, as skimper once proposed - you just can't get the precision needed to do it.

Ooops! Did I say "can't" just now?

zyffyr wrote:

RedBaron wrote:
Then deal with your troll infestation on here!

If you really want to end the troll infestation, just stop posting. Problem solved.

MaxxQ wrote:After his most recent tantrum, I doubt we will be hearing from him for awhile.

Theemile wrote:This SD disposal conversation brings to mind a recent garage find of mine; My parents recently moved after they retired and "found" a bunch of boxes of mine in the process. One box contained my old printer for my Commodore 64; The Commodore itself is long since gone, but here is the printer. I looked at the ribbon, I had used less than 1/10th of the original ribbon, and found 2 spare ribbons new in plastic in the box.

So here is a printer; Aged to say the least, but working fine. I have spare ribbons, so it can work for me for years. It's not compatible with my modern pc, but I have the port schematics, and have the knowledge and ability to modify it to work with the modern pc with modified generic epson drivers.

But it's a 9pin black dot matrix printer, with speeds and quality that didn't impress in 1985. Yes, I can build an interface, but to do it right would not be pocket change, and would take me several days of research, planning and work. However, I can buy a low end color ink jet, photo quality printer for less than $20 and have it working in less than 10 minutes.

So, should I get the old printer working?

The answer for me was to yank the motors, gears and switches, and recycle the rest. I have several perfectly good working printers in the house and a new backup in storage, all light years better than this old relic. Should they all die, it would be better to replace them with a new printer, than to force that old printer to work.

Which goes along with the SDs. For most ideas, there is a better, cheaper solution at hand. For others, it is impractical or unachievable in the current situation. For others, they are a one-off solution, which might happen some day, but not now, and not for more than 1 or 2 of them.

AS for our 'negativity", don't attack us, attack the logic behind our arguments. Sway us with the reasons your concept might be plausible. Actually listen to our arguments, and if they are flawed, point out the flaw. Draw others to your side instead of throwing verbal stones at them.

Please note, you are hearing the same points from many different posters - why? As I and others have said previously, we have already had this discussion, and debated points logically to see if they were plausible. and in the end, most everybody has come to the same conclusion. However, if there is a flaw in the logic, WE WOULD RELISH a fresh viewpoint with a workable concept.

Lord Skimper wrote:How many times do we have to say it, your butter knife cannot dismantle your dot matrix printer, it would take years to cut through the plastic. There is no mention of a butter knife that can cut through the dot matrix plastic, in any of the honorverse books, this particular forum member can't think of a single butter knife that could, without smashing and stabbing through it like a wrecking ball through drywall. Oh my god give up a'ready.

See what we are talking about?