Detweiler and Sons

Oh as someone with 5 step kids, and 4.3 step grandkids, I'll confirm parental bonds can form easily without DNA or birth experiences.

But I still wonder if they took the trouble to use natural pregnancy.

Or perhaps had Albert and his wife be very hands on while the kids were tubed. Visiting, readin, etc.

The relationship between A and B-G is important enough to use every trick you can to make it a good one.

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Annachie wrote:Oh as someone with 5 step kids, and 4.3 step grandkids, I'll confirm parental bonds can form easily without DNA or birth experiences.

But I still wonder if they took the trouble to use natural pregnancy.

Or perhaps had Albert and his wife be very hands on while the kids were tubed. Visiting, readin, etc.

The relationship between A and B-G is important enough to use every trick you can to make it a good one.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

That would require the purest of speculation so here is mine. Natural pregnancy, no. My opinion is they more closely mirrored HHs own pregnancy, down to voice and heartbeat recordings.

Annachie wrote:Oh as someone with 5 step kids, and 4.3 step grandkids, I'll confirm parental bonds can form easily without DNA or birth experiences.

But I still wonder if they took the trouble to use natural pregnancy.

Or perhaps had Albert and his wife be very hands on while the kids were tubed. Visiting, readin, etc.

The relationship between A and B-G is important enough to use every trick you can to make it a good one.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

My bold to call attention.

I don't doubt that at all and wholeheartedly agree—if all else is equal, or normal. In the Detweilers' case, I don't see that it is equal or that the circumstances are conducive.

Which cues my guess into thinking that there was not a natural childbirth. If a man wants himself cloned out of "egotistical manifestations" and tubing is available, then it seems that the choice is obvious, because that would generate a purer entity in his mind, without being tainted by the incumbent and biological manifestations given unto by a mother and engendered by natural childbirth.

WeirdlyWired wrote:

Annachie wrote:Oh as someone with 5 step kids, and 4.3 step grandkids, I'll confirm parental bonds can form easily without DNA or birth experiences.

But I still wonder if they took the trouble to use natural pregnancy.

Or perhaps had Albert and his wife be very hands on while the kids were tubed. Visiting, readin, etc.

The relationship between A and B-G is important enough to use every trick you can to make it a good one.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

That would require the purest of speculation so here is mine. Natural pregnancy, no. My opinion is they more closely mirrored HHs own pregnancy, down to voice and heartbeat recordings.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mother was not allowed to interact in any way before birth—and her involvement even meted out or at least filtered postpartum. The ego is a large reservoir.

JohnRoth wrote:You are aware that Freud has been consigned to the dumpster of history by the modern psychological community? There are still Freudians around, like there are followers of Carl Jung, but they're currently very far out of the mainstream. "Oedepus the King" (Oedepus Rex) is a great play, but it has relatively little to teach about psychology.

Yes. Yes.

I disagree. The play has much to teach by exposing one to the idea. The teaching comes in the learning process of those astute enough to engage in further research. Especially the old-fashioned form of the play rendered in Greece (which I've seen twice) where the actors still wear masks.

One of my sisters is a psychologist and I've often listened to her ramble on the subject. Her dream interpretations are fascinating.

One thing is undeniable. The work that Freud pioneered in many areas cannot be argued in value in its virgin ground. Sexual research was, and still is even in the 21st century, a taboo subject—especially in the sexually repressed mores of the American society.

The Oedipus complex is very real. The complex is not argued in its reality, just in its complexity—as in, is it the manifestation of true sexual desires, or the subconscious need for a child to return to his mother's womb to thus be rejuvenated? IOW, Jung saw the complex not as a sexual desire. Freud did.

Modern society realizes there are possibly several manifestations of the complex. It is a fact that the complex has a true sexual counterpart.

Freud has permeated our psyche and language. Regardless if all of his teachings will some day be discredited, his impact on language may be everlasting. Certainly the "Freudian slip" and his work on the "Oedipus Complex."

This is a very fascinating subject that can unravel fast. And I must make certain that my mouth does not write checks that my time can't cash.

cthia wrote:

SYED wrote:It might simply be a messed up approach to preserving a bloodline, with out the complete ickyness of incest.

The psychology of it all is interesting. Every man wants to be all he can be for his sons. He wants his sons to look up to him. To emulate him. Little wonder Detweiler crafted his sons out of his own loins. He essentially gave them a genetic rib, as Eve received a rib from Adam. The original Detweiler was almost in every way the Malign Adam.

The sons have a hero-worship, a love affair if you will, for their father... is this the countervailing opposite of the Oedipus complex or would it be more accurately renamed as the "Ohedipus complex?" ? shrugs

Rather interesting, psychologically. If his wife had absolutely nothing to do with the conception, how can she feel anything other than useless—in the overall scheme of things, dead weight, inferior in every way? How can she feel anything like a part of the family as opposed to just a part of the marriage?

Talk about dysfunctional family syndrome.

Greentea wrote:I have a feeling this is going to cause some major problems in the next book. Albrecht Detweiler chose to have 4 cloned sons, each of whom he assigned a different key task in the "Great Plan" with Albrecht in command over all 4 of them. Albrecht is now dead. Who is in charge? There are 4 equally strong claimants. Does anyone else see a succession fight coming up.

I have the same feeling Greentea, as is both evident and fuel for one of my posts in roseandheather's incredible POV thread...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6347&start=190

If you follow the Oedipus complex to all of its obvious conclusions, then marry it with the god-complex, then things become quite evident, that at least, the stage is set for conflict—whether storyline follows that route or not.

My delving into the Oedipus complex stems from the fact that the complex sees one parent as a threat. And in this case, the mother would be the competition, the threat as it were—possibly causing the boys to resent her, or at the very least impede her "normal" ability to rear them. There has to be respect for both parents. The mother has already been disrespected by the father. Like father, like son. Since everything is greatly magnified in the MAlign, I'm open to the possibility that these subtle areas are also likewise magnified.

In the Oedipus complex the boy (in his phallic stage) is seeking a sexual relationship with the mother which causes him to identify with the father and consequently sees the father as his competition for his mother's affections.

In the Detweilers' case, since the complex has taken on "the same sex," in what form is the complex driven? Is it still sexual in nature? IMO, it is not sexual per se, but still takes on an unhealthy form of wanting to please intensely. In this form, I think that the complex would also spill over into the brothers seeing each other as competition of daddy's affections and causing unhealthy sibling rivalry. After all, Alpha's are NOT suppose to be "lacking" therefore who is the favorite and who is the smartest? And who shall take over after dad?

Almost forgot...

The fact that there may not be any daughters reinforces and lends credence to my thinking that Detweiler's relationship with the boys was unhealthy—and begs the answer to many questions and recommends many a course to travel intellectually.

Oedipus Complex + God-Complex = Powder Keg

This equation could become a prime example of the statement "Hoist by his own petard."

I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, one of Detweiler's own sons defects and betrays the Alignment—perhaps born of sibling rivalry and a combo-complex.

Detweiler's entire plan is unstable and fueled by nitroglycerin.

cthia wrote:

SYED wrote:It might simply be a messed up approach to preserving a bloodline, with out the complete ickyness of incest.

The psychology of it all is interesting. Every man wants to be all he can be for his sons. He wants his sons to look up to him. To emulate him. Little wonder Detweiler crafted his sons out of his own loins. He essentially gave them a genetic rib, as Eve received a rib from Adam. The original Detweiler was almost in every way the Malign Adam.

The sons have a hero-worship, a love affair if you will, for their father... is this the countervailing opposite of the Oedipus complex or would it be more accurately renamed as the "Ohedipus complex?" ? shrugs

Rather interesting, psychologically. If his wife had absolutely nothing to do with the conception, how can she feel anything other than useless—in the overall scheme of things, dead weight, inferior in every way? How can she feel anything like a part of the family as opposed to just a part of the marriage?

Talk about dysfunctional family syndrome.

Greentea wrote:I have a feeling this is going to cause some major problems in the next book. Albrecht Detweiler chose to have 4 cloned sons, each of whom he assigned a different key task in the "Great Plan" with Albrecht in command over all 4 of them. Albrecht is now dead. Who is in charge? There are 4 equally strong claimants. Does anyone else see a succession fight coming up.

cthia wrote:I have the same feeling Greentea, as is both evident and fuel for one of my posts in roseandheather's incredible POV thread...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6347&start=190

If you follow the Oedipus complex to all of its obvious conclusions, then marry it with the god-complex, then things become quite evident, that at least, the stage is set for conflict—whether storyline follows that route or not.

My delving into the Oedipus complex stems from the fact that the complex sees one parent as a threat. And in this case, the mother would be the competition, the threat as it were—possibly causing the boys to resent her, or at the very least impede her "normal" ability to rear them. There has to be respect for both parents. The mother has already been disrespected by the father. Like father, like son. Since everything is greatly magnified in the MAlign, I'm open to the possibility that these subtle areas are also likewise magnified.

In the Oedipus complex the boy (in his phallic stage) is seeking a sexual relationship with the mother which causes him to identify with the father and consequently sees the father as his competition for his mother's affections.

In the Detweilers' case, since the complex has taken on "the same sex," in what form is the complex driven? Is it still sexual in nature? IMO, it is not sexual per se, but still takes on an unhealthy form of wanting to please intensely. In this form, I think that the complex would also spill over into the brothers seeing each other as competition of daddy's affections and causing unhealthy sibling rivalry. After all, Alpha's are NOT suppose to be "lacking" therefore who is the favorite and who is the smartest? And who shall take over after dad?

Almost forgot...

The fact that there may not be any daughters reinforces and lends credence to my thinking that Detweiler's relationship with the boys was unhealthy—and begs the answer to many questions and recommends many a course to travel intellectually.

Oedipus Complex + God-Complex = Powder Keg

This equation could become a prime example of the statement "Hoist by his own petard."

I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, one of Detweiler's own sons defects and betrays the Alignment—perhaps born of sibling rivalry and a combo-complex.

Detweiler's entire plan is unstable and fueled by nitroglycerin.

Or possibly even his wife may defect. How would her relationship with the boys be affected now that he is gone?

cthia wrote:Or possibly even his wife may defect. How would her relationship with the boys be affected now that he is gone?

Apparently you haven't yet finished Shadow of Victory yet, so I won't spoil it for you.

Vince wrote:

cthia wrote:Or possibly even his wife may defect. How would her relationship with the boys be affected now that he is gone?

Apparently you haven't yet finished Shadow of Victory yet, so I won't spoil it for you.

Finished it? I have yet to even begin it. I am saving it for a Christmas read by the fireplace, as my wife is saving one of Janet Evanovich's for the same occasion. At least that is the plan. Thanks for considering my lateness to the party.

Sounds like a tum-te-tum and got me more anxious and up in arms.

cthia wrote:

SYED wrote:It might simply be a messed up approach to preserving a bloodline, with out the complete ickyness of incest.

The psychology of it all is interesting. Every man wants to be all he can be for his sons. He wants his sons to look up to him. To emulate him. Little wonder Detweiler crafted his sons out of his own loins. He essentially gave them a genetic rib, as Eve received a rib from Adam. The original Detweiler was almost in every way the Malign Adam.

The sons have a hero-worship, a love affair if you will, for their father... is this the countervailing opposite of the Oedipus complex or would it be more accurately renamed as the "Ohedipus complex?" ? shrugs

Rather interesting, psychologically. If his wife had absolutely nothing to do with the conception, how can she feel anything other than useless—in the overall scheme of things, dead weight, inferior in every way? How can she feel anything like a part of the family as opposed to just a part of the marriage?

Talk about dysfunctional family syndrome.

phillies wrote:For this reason I am somewhat inclined to believe that there might well also be her daughters, though perhaps fewer of them.

Phillies, I seriously doubt that there are daughters or rather I'd be seriously surprised if there are. The psychological thinking of a man like Detweiler leans towards the extremes. This is a man who wants a pure bloodline. Detweiler is the quintessential modern Hitler. And Hitler was insane. I have always questioned Detweiler's sanity. And you all know my position on sanity acting on a Hitler who is acting as a head of a nation from the *Incompleteness of Godwin's Law thread.

Detweiler wanted complete and udder control of his sons. He wanted them not just to be like him genetically, he would have hoped that that fact would influence the inevitability and even probability that they would also "think like him" as well, that they would automagically hold dear and close to their heart what he holds dear and close to his.

Actually, I see it as the only way one could ever hope to brainwash an intelligent being into swallowing that level of insanity. Albeit, we have many cases of our own that may argue the fact.

If there are too many extraneous variables, then he loses the fine control that he so craves—and desperately needs if his house of cards is to have a real chance of success. Even just one extra variable—one daughter, can destroy all that Detweiler worked for. Several daughters further distills the nitroglycerin cocktail.

There is also a possible effect of the Oedipus complex that would come into play if there were daughters. Consider this...

If the Oedipus and the Electra complex manifests simultaneously in the same family and they are spurned (or at the very least, in their minds spurned) that could lead to the son and daughter seeking, perhaps even needing, comfort or revenge in the form of an unhealthy relationship with the other.

In a nutshell, Detweiler would want as less outside influence<=>interference as possible.

Entropy demands the end of all things.

In poker, five in a row is considered a straight flush. (A straight flush consists of five cards in a row of the same suit.) Detweiler has six sons, of the same suit. A straight flush is considered a very good hand. Detweiler has a sixth card in play and in suit, which theoretically should strengthen the hand even further. However, as applied to Detweiler, a straight flush in the reproductive process of insanity is imminent doom. If Hitler cloned himself six times what do you imagine would be the outcome?

* viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7904

Edit: sanity => insanity.

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