Battletech

Duckk wrote:Why would you ever build a command mech with C3 Master as a melee range combatant? Take a look at all the cannon mechs which mounts a C3 Master. There's a stunning lack of close range builds. All of them are either snipers, medium-long (as in classic PPC ranges) combatants, or capable of moving fast enough to get decent movement mods. You keep the C3 Master unit away from trouble, not take it right into the middle of it. C3 Masters are high priority targets, so struggling to lumber into range as an assault mech is the worst possible thing to do. You get picked apart by long range fire, while you're incapable of responding with your short range weapons. A single crit will bring down the whole net. That's why command mechs stay apart from the fray. They want to make the range for them, not against them.

Also, there's no way to build either of your UrbanMech. It ends up being overweight or over crit allotment.

It's an Urban warfare unit (buildings, blind alleys, etc...) it's a close combat environment, which is why LRM support would be more useful than ER-LLs which would need LoS. I do think a Naginata would be more useful as a command Mech. though as an alternate, I do suggest replaceing the C3M with a C3S and additional equipment and replacing one of the Urbis with an Assassin equipped with the Master, it would primarily be light LRM support but the Master would be hopping around at 7 and have little firepower to draw fire to it, making it a poor target.
In a blind game your opponent may even dismiss it as a spotter/recon and completely ignore it (especialy if you squeezed in a Beagle).
In an open game he may wast all his fire on a poor target, drawing fire from your weapons platforms...{boing,boing,boing can't hit me! BANG,BANG,BANG I hit you! }
Either way, he is forced to decide whether to shoot at the Mech commanding the C3 or at the Mechs shooting back at him.
Personally, I built a command car for a blind game, it had all of the C3s in the same 80tn wheeled vehicle, only MGs for point defense, all 11 of the combat units had C3S' and the command car was dug-in under camo off to one side, forward, yea forward. I also had lots of LRMs. First salvo was Thunders split between both sides leaving a clear path up the middle (to direct their advance up the center - a noticeable but logical strategy but with the added secondary (or primary) strategy of covering the area around the command car with Thunders, to prevent him poking around that area of the map looking for it, also my last Thunder salvos would include a few hexes to the rear to draw his recon to a killing field as they look for the unseen 12the unit - which must be the central command vehicle once he counts my units and start to wonder 'where's 12?')

Here are the 'Standard' mods of the Titan, remember these predate TRO 2750.
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BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Titan TIT-1A
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 1, Standard design

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Star League IM-03x Standard
Power Plant: 300 Strand Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Maximillian 300 Standard
Armament:
6 Medium Lasers
2 PPCs
4 SRM 4s
1 SRM 6
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Pauley-Bronson Z
Targeting & Tracking System: Wasat Aggressor Type 8

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Titan TIT-1A
Mass: 100 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 300 Fusion 6 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 22 Single 10 12.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 HD, 2 LT, 3 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 304 pts Standard 0 19.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 50
Center Torso (Rear): 11
L/R Side Torso: 21 35/35
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 7/7
L/R Arm: 17 34/34
L/R Leg: 21 41/41

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
3 Medium Lasers RA 9 3 3.00
3 Medium Lasers LA 9 3 3.00
1 PPC RT 10 3 7.00
2 SRM 4s RT 6 50 4 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 PPC LT 10 3 7.00
2 SRM 4s LT 6 2 4.00
1 SRM 6 CT 4 15 3 4.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 54 62 100.00
Crits & Tons Left: 16 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 9,922,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,446
Cost per BV: 6,861.69
Weapon Value: 1,985 / 1,985 (Ratio = 1.37 / 1.37)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 25; MRDmg = 13; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 3, Armor/Structure: 8/8
Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/1, Overheat: 4
Class: MA; Point Value: 14
==========================================================
The primary design. Carries 2 PPCs for Long Range fire and 6ML for close quarters.
4 SRM-4s and a SRM-6 provide additional close quarter/crit seaking firepower
==========================================================

BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Titan TIT-1B
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 1, Standard design

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Star League IM-03x Standard
Power Plant: 300 Strand Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Maximillian 300 Standard
Armament:
6 Medium Lasers
2 Large Lasers
4 SRM 4s
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Pauley-Bronson Z
Targeting & Tracking System: Wasat Aggressor Type 8

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Titan TIT-1B
Mass: 100 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 300 Fusion 6 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 30 Single 18 20.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 HD, 5 LT, 6 RT, 2 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 304 pts Standard 0 19.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 50
Center Torso (Rear): 11
L/R Side Torso: 21 35/35
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 7/7
L/R Arm: 17 34/34
L/R Leg: 21 41/41

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
3 Medium Lasers RA 9 3 3.00
3 Medium Lasers LA 9 3 3.00
1 Large Laser RT 8 2 5.00
2 SRM 4s RT 6 50 4 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 Large Laser LT 8 2 5.00
2 SRM 4s LT 6 2 4.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 46 65 100.00
Crits & Tons Left: 13 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 9,340,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,528
Cost per BV: 6,112.57
Weapon Value: 2,560 / 2,560 (Ratio = 1.68 / 1.68)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 37; MRDmg = 12; LRDmg = 1
BattleForce2: MP: 3, Armor/Structure: 8/8
Damage PB/M/L: 6/5/-, Overheat: 3
Class: MA; Point Value: 15
==========================================================
1B replaces the PPCs for LLs and removes the SRM-6 to add more HS to relieve the heat issues
==========================================================
BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Titan TIT-2A
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 1, Standard design

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Star League IM-03x Standard
Power Plant: 300 Strand Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Maximillian 300 Standard
Armament:
6 Medium Lasers
2 PPCs
4 SRM 4s
1 SRM 6
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Pauley-Bronson Z
Targeting & Tracking System: Wasat Aggressor Type 8

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Titan TIT-2A
Mass: 100 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 300 Fusion 6 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 22 Single 10 12.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 HD, 2 LT, 3 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 304 pts Standard 0 19.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 50
Center Torso (Rear): 11
L/R Side Torso: 21 35/35
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 7/7
L/R Arm: 17 34/34
L/R Leg: 21 41/41

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Lasers RA 6 2 2.00
2 Medium Lasers LA 6 2 2.00
1 PPC RT 10 3 7.00
1 Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
2 SRM 4s RT 6 50 4 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 PPC LT 10 3 7.00
1 Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
2 SRM 4s LT 6 2 4.00
1 SRM 6 CT 4 15 3 4.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 54 62 100.00
Crits & Tons Left: 16 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 9,922,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,446
Cost per BV: 6,861.69
Weapon Value: 1,985 / 1,985 (Ratio = 1.37 / 1.37)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 24; MRDmg = 13; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 3, Armor/Structure: 8/8
Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/1, Overheat: 4
Class: MA; Point Value: 14
==========================================================
2A as 1A but moves 2 of the MLs to the torso for use when punching or if the arms are lost
==========================================================
BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Titan TIT-3A
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 1, Standard design

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Star League IM-03x Standard
Power Plant: 300 Strand Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: 3 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor Type: Maximillian 300 Standard
Armament:
6 Medium Lasers
2 PPCs
2 SRM 4s
1 SRM 6
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Pauley-Bronson Z
Targeting & Tracking System: Wasat Aggressor Type 8

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Titan TIT-3A
Mass: 100 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 300 Fusion 6 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 20 Single 8 10.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 HD, 3 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 304 pts Standard 0 19.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 50
Center Torso (Rear): 11
L/R Side Torso: 21 35/35
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 7/7
L/R Arm: 17 34/34
L/R Leg: 21 41/41

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
3 Medium Lasers RA 9 3 3.00
3 Medium Lasers LA 9 3 3.00
1 PPC RT 10 3 7.00
1 SRM 4 RT 3 50 3 4.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 PPC LT 10 3 7.00
1 SRM 4 LT 3 1 2.00
1 SRM 6 LT 4 15 3 4.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
3 Standard Jump Jets: 3 6.00
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 CT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 48 61 100.00
Crits & Tons Left: 17 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 10,034,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,611
Cost per BV: 6,228.43
Weapon Value: 1,806 / 1,806 (Ratio = 1.12 / 1.12)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 22; MRDmg = 13; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 3J, Armor/Structure: 8/8
Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/1, Overheat: 4
Class: MA; Point Value: 16
==========================================================
3A as 1A but removes 2 HS and 2-SRM-4s and adds JJ for increased mobility
==========================================================
BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Titan TIT-4A
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 1, Standard design

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Star League IM-03x Standard
Power Plant: 300 Strand Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Maximillian 300 Standard
Armament:
6 Medium Lasers
2 PPCs
5 SRM 4s
1 SRM 2
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Pauley-Bronson Z
Targeting & Tracking System: Wasat Aggressor Type 8

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Titan TIT-4A
Mass: 100 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 300 Fusion 6 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 22 Single 10 12.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 HD, 2 LT, 3 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 304 pts Standard 0 19.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 50
Center Torso (Rear): 11
L/R Side Torso: 21 35/35
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 7/7
L/R Arm: 17 34/34
L/R Leg: 21 41/41

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
3 Medium Lasers RA 9 3 3.00
3 Medium Lasers LA 9 3 3.00
1 PPC RT 10 3 7.00
2 SRM 4s RT 6 50 4 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 PPC LT 10 3 7.00
2 SRM 4s LT 6 2 4.00
1 SRM 4 CT 3 1 2.00
1 SRM 2 CT 2 50 2 2.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 55 62 100.00
Crits & Tons Left: 16 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 9,902,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,435
Cost per BV: 6,900.35
Weapon Value: 1,933 / 1,933 (Ratio = 1.35 / 1.35)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 24; MRDmg = 13; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 3, Armor/Structure: 8/8
Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/1, Overheat: 4
Class: MA; Point Value: 14
==========================================================
4A as 1A but replaces the SRM-6 with a SRM-4 and a SRM-2 for infernos
(when only 2-packs could use them)
==========================================================

Here are the 'Standard' mods of the Malleus, remember these predate TRO 2750.
==========================================================
BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Malleus MLS-1A
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Dorwinion Standard
Power Plant: 250 Nissan Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 McCloud Specials Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Starshield Standard
Armament:
2 LRM 5s
1 LRM 10
3 Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Achernar BattleMechs
Location: New Avalon
Communications System: Achernar Electronics HICS-11
Targeting & Tracking System: Federated Hunter

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Malleus MLS-1A
Mass: 50 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 83 pts Standard 0 5.00
Engine: 250 Fusion 6 12.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 12 Single 2 2.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 RA, 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA 15 .00
Armor Factor: 128 pts Standard 0 8.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 16 27
Center Torso (Rear): 4
L/R Side Torso: 12 22/22
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 8 8/8
L/R Leg: 12 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 5 RA 2 24 2 3.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
1 LRM 5 LA 2 1 2.00
1 LRM 10 RT 4 12 3 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
2 Medium Lasers LT 6 2 2.00
1 Medium Laser HD 3 1 1.00
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 2.50
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 17 46 50.00
Crits & Tons Left: 32 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 5,496,249 C-Bills
Battle Value: 966
Cost per BV: 5,689.7
Weapon Value: 596 / 596 (Ratio = .62 / .62)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 12; MRDmg = 10; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 3/4
Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/1, Overheat: 1
Class: MM; Point Value: 10
Specials: omni, if
==========================================================
Actually I think this would be the MLS-1 (or Prime), Original Standard with 2 LRM-5s split between the arms, 1 LRM-10 in the RT and 3 ML for close combat
==========================================================

BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Malleus MLS-1B
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Dorwinion Standard
Power Plant: 250 Nissan Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 McCloud Specials Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Starshield Standard
Armament:
2 SRM 4s
1 LRM 10
3 Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Achernar BattleMechs
Location: New Avalon
Communications System: Achernar Electronics HICS-11
Targeting & Tracking System: Federated Hunter

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Malleus MLS-1B
Mass: 50 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 83 pts Standard 0 5.00
Engine: 250 Fusion 6 12.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 12 Single 2 2.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 RA, 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA 15 .00
Armor Factor: 128 pts Standard 0 8.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 16 27
Center Torso (Rear): 4
L/R Side Torso: 12 22/22
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 8 8/8
L/R Leg: 12 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 SRM 4 RA 3 25 2 3.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 SRM 4 LA 3 1 2.00
1 LRM 10 RT 4 12 3 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
2 Medium Lasers LT 6 2 2.00
1 Medium Laser HD 3 1 1.00
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 2.50
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 19 46 50.00
Crits & Tons Left: 32 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 5,603,124 C-Bills
Battle Value: 917
Cost per BV: 6,110.28
Weapon Value: 559 / 559 (Ratio = .61 / .61)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 14; MRDmg = 6; LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 3/4
Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/-, Overheat: 2
Class: MM; Point Value: 9
Specials: omni, if
==========================================================
1st mod replaces the 5-packs with SRM-4s to increase close combat capability (Same Mech just replaces the LRM-5 pods with SRM-4 pods and ammo feeds)
==========================================================

BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Malleus MLS-1C
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Dorwinion Standard
Power Plant: 250 Nissan Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 McCloud Specials Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Starshield Standard
Armament:
2 LRM 5s
1 LRM 10
2 Medium Lasers
1 Machine Gun
Manufacturer: Achernar BattleMechs
Location: New Avalon
Communications System: Achernar Electronics HICS-11
Targeting & Tracking System: Federated Hunter

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Malleus MLS-1C
Mass: 50 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 83 pts Standard 0 5.00
Engine: 250 Fusion 6 12.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 12 Single 2 2.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 RA, 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA 15 .00
Armor Factor: 128 pts Standard 0 8.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 16 27
Center Torso (Rear): 4
L/R Side Torso: 12 22/22
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 8 8/8
L/R Leg: 12 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 5 RA 2 24 2 3.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 LRM 5 LA 2 1 2.00
1 LRM 10 RT 4 12 3 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
2 Medium Lasers LT 6 2 2.00
1 Machine Gun HD 0 100 2 1.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 2.50
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 14 47 50.00
Crits & Tons Left: 31 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 5,431,562 C-Bills
Battle Value: 934
Cost per BV: 5,815.38
Weapon Value: 583 / 583 (Ratio = .62 / .62)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 11; MRDmg = 10; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 3/4
Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/1, Overheat: 1
Class: MM; Point Value: 9
Specials: omni, if
==========================================================
2nd mod, as origina but replaces the head mounted ML with a MG and a 1/2 ton of ammo to provide anti-personel defense (again same Mech with pod replacements)
==========================================================
BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Malleus MLS-1D
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Dorwinion Standard
Power Plant: 250 Nissan Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 McCloud Specials Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Starshield Standard
Armament:
2 SRM 4s
1 LRM 10
2 Medium Lasers
1 Machine Gun
Manufacturer: Achernar BattleMechs
Location: New Avalon
Communications System: Achernar Electronics HICS-11
Targeting & Tracking System: Federated Hunter

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Malleus MLS-1D
Mass: 50 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 83 pts Standard 0 5.00
Engine: 250 Fusion 6 12.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 12 Single 2 2.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 RA, 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA 15 .00
Armor Factor: 128 pts Standard 0 8.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 16 27
Center Torso (Rear): 4
L/R Side Torso: 12 22/22
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 8 8/8
L/R Leg: 12 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 SRM 4 RA 3 25 2 3.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 SRM 4 LA 3 1 2.00
1 LRM 10 RT 4 12 3 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
2 Medium Lasers LT 6 2 2.00
1 Machine Gun HD 0 100 2 1.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 2.50
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 16 47 50.00
Crits & Tons Left: 31 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 5,538,436 C-Bills
Battle Value: 883
Cost per BV: 6,272.29
Weapon Value: 542 / 542 (Ratio = .61 / .61)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 14; MRDmg = 6; LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 3/4
Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/-, Overheat: 1
Class: MM; Point Value: 9
Specials: omni, if
==========================================================
3rd mod, as 1st mod and 2nd mods combined, SRMs and MG
==========================================================
BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Malleus MLS-2A
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Dorwinion Standard
Power Plant: 250 Nissan Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 McCloud Specials Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Starshield Standard
Armament:
2 LRM 5s
1 LRM 10
2 Medium Lasers
1 Small Laser
Manufacturer: Achernar BattleMechs
Location: New Avalon
Communications System: Achernar Electronics HICS-11
Targeting & Tracking System: Federated Hunter

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Malleus MLS-2A
Mass: 50 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 83 pts Standard 0 5.00
Engine: 250 Fusion 6 12.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 12 Single 2 2.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 RA, 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA 15 .00
Armor Factor: 136 pts Standard 0 8.50

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 16 21
Center Torso (Rear): 6
L/R Side Torso: 12 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 4/4
L/R Arm: 8 10/10
L/R Leg: 12 16/16

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 5 RA 2 24 2 3.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 LRM 5 LA 2 1 2.00
1 LRM 10 RT 4 12 3 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
2 Medium Lasers LT 6 2 2.00
1 Small Laser HD 1 1 .50
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 2.50
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 15 46 50.00
Crits & Tons Left: 32 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 5,451,718 C-Bills
Battle Value: 958
Cost per BV: 5,690.73
Weapon Value: 591 / 591 (Ratio = .62 / .62)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 11; MRDmg = 10; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 3/4
Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/1, Overheat: 1
Class: MM; Point Value: 10
Specials: omni, if
==========================================================
4th mod, actual physical variant from original, downgrades the ML in the head to a SL and increases the armor.
==========================================================

BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Malleus MLS-2B
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Dorwinion Standard
Power Plant: 250 Nissan Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 McCloud Specials Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Starshield Standard
Armament:
2 SRM 4s
1 LRM 10
2 Medium Lasers
1 Small Laser
Manufacturer: Achernar BattleMechs
Location: New Avalon
Communications System: Achernar Electronics HICS-11
Targeting & Tracking System: Federated Hunter

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Malleus MLS-2B
Mass: 50 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 83 pts Standard 0 5.00
Engine: 250 Fusion 6 12.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 12 Single 2 2.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 RA, 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA 15 .00
Armor Factor: 136 pts Standard 0 8.50

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 16 27
Center Torso (Rear): 4
L/R Side Torso: 12 22/22
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 8 10/10
L/R Leg: 12 14/14

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 SRM 4 RA 3 25 2 3.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 SRM 4 LA 3 1 2.00
1 LRM 10 RT 4 12 3 6.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
2 Medium Lasers LT 6 2 2.00
1 Small Laser HD 1 1 .50
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 2.50
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 17 46 50.00
Crits & Tons Left: 32 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 5,558,594 C-Bills
Battle Value: 908
Cost per BV: 6,121.8
Weapon Value: 552 / 552 (Ratio = .61 / .61)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 14; MRDmg = 6; LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 3/4
Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/-, Overheat: 1
Class: MM; Point Value: 9
Specials: omni, if
==========================================================
5th (and final book) mod, as 4th (physical) mod but replaces the 5-packs with SRM-4s to increase close combat capability (Same Mech just replaces the LRM-5 pods with SRM-4 pods and ammo feeds)==========================================================
Think I may include these in my next Con games (at Texicon next year). I'll use Plastech Trebuchet's for mini's.

Duckk wrote:Why would you ever build a command mech with C3 Master as a melee range combatant? Take a look at all the cannon mechs which mounts a C3 Master. There's a stunning lack of close range builds. All of them are either snipers, medium-long (as in classic PPC ranges) combatants, or capable of moving fast enough to get decent movement mods. You keep the C3 Master unit away from trouble, not take it right into the middle of it. C3 Masters are high priority targets, so struggling to lumber into range as an assault mech is the worst possible thing to do. You get picked apart by long range fire, while you're incapable of responding with your short range weapons. A single crit will bring down the whole net. That's why command mechs stay apart from the fray. They want to make the range for them, not against them.

Also, there's no way to build either of your UrbanMech. It ends up being overweight or over crit allotment.

Both Urbanmech builds work fine. LRM missiles are useless in an AMS theatre. Not having short medium weapons support is an oversight not an advantage. Legs mot arms, yeah okay. Unmounted arms armour is cut waydown but is used without any actuators to mount Endo or Special armour criticals. Twelve critcals left (arm) here. XL engine lets one use ECM. Sniper nests shoot from confined spaces, through windows of buildings, etc... Missiles don't work in such spaces. One thinks you have never fought in a city before?

Lord Skimper wrote:LRM missiles are useless in an AMS theatre.

not in the least. 1 AMS can only engage 1 missile volley & depending on the rules they are more or less worthless. With the original rules, they were only good for stopping about 8pt of damage (1/2 ton of armor) per ton of ammo used. With other rules (like having to declare target salvo before to-hits are made) make them a complete waste of tonnage/crits. I believe the new rules make them a little more useful using 1 round instead of 2D6 per burst and providing 1 salvo a -2 to the # of Missile roll with <2 = 2, still not an effective defense, sure in a 1-1 against a single Valkyrie or Thorn maybe. but against multiple Valks, or a single Salamander, concentrating fire on 1 target 1 shots getting threw unmolested(unless you have multiples like your rare design - and look how much tonnage and Crits it takes to do that, nearly enough for a ER-LL) do they really cover that much damage to justify the weight? also LRMs are IDF, I can spread a lance of Valks around your mechs and use infantry to spot different mechs, with each spotter tagging a target with its back to the firing Valk, AMSs are limited to firing arcs (AMS cannot be loaned to other units - only the intended target can fire).
In addition I prefer the LRM-5, I have a Clan Dieshi mod I call the Rainman which carries 10-LRM-5s in each arm - that's 20 launchers with 100 tubes, and you 3-AMSs can only effect 3 of them, at 7+ to-hit I will (on average) hit with 12 launchers, that 3 with -2 on the missile table and 9 unaffected (in addition to any other LRMs I rain down on that target that turn) . My IS version (modified Atlas/Longbow merger) has 8/arm that's 16 launchers 80 tubes (= to 2 Archers) almost as effective, & yes they both have the HS and ammo for sustained action.
You just have to adjust your missile tactics to compensate for a minor trinket, either with multiple small batteries or ArtIV - which is a +2 on the missile chart - so +2-2=0, you countered the ArtIV on one of my Archers LRM-20s (but not the other).

In open terrain perhaps but not in cities. Mechs pop out or up and then step / fall back behind cover. In sniper modes you don't shoot from a building, you shoot through buildings. From your point of view you can't see my Mechs, ECM prevents it short of a Beagle Active probe, you see a laser PPC or AC firing from a building. You don't have missile lock and you need to close. With a minimal range of 6 your LRMs can't hit what they can see, can't see when passed minimal range and can't hit what my AMS keeps you from hitting. If one has the option one uses Blazer armour on my Cyclops that is 17 tons, 272 points plus 50% vs missiles. 408 points. May have to lose XL engine, TSM and reduced Jump jets. On the Urban Mechs they have lots of critical space and can use Blazer armour moving 96 points to 144 vs missiles.

Plus my Lance is only 180 tons. If you throw 100 ton Mechs at mostly light Mechs in cities your not going to have your assault Mechs in other places and we will wait for you to advance, or pin them down Infantry advances will be mopped up with pulse lasers or a LB10X shot effect, keeping your 100 ton Mechs pinned down attacking a city with you sitting out at range attempting to find my lance or moving into the city where your missile Mechs don't work. If you assault with 100's of tons of Mechs I'll retreat, out run your 100 ton Mechs. Energy and auto cannons work great with pop up fire and hide tactics. Missiles don't work in cities.

Lord Skimper wrote:Mechs pop out or up and then step / fall back behind cover. In sniper modes you don't shoot from a building, you shoot through buildings...

Buildings block LoS

Lord Skimper wrote:Plus my Lance is only 180 tons...

For the same 180tn, I can send in a reinforced lance with 1-80tn Salamander with 3xLRM-20s, 2 Valkyries with 1xLRM-15 each and 2 20ton scout Mechs for spotting. The cheap 20 tonners (with EMS set to ECCM) move forward, Spot/get ambushed by your Mech and 90LRMs rain down on you, if you can see me to shoot those lasers/ACs, I can see you to spot/TAG/NARC, but you still cant see my LRM detachment. If you finally end up dropping both 20 tonners then one of the Valks takes over, or I decide I've inflicted enough losses on you and pull back for refit/reload. alternately, I can send in 4 Valks and a 60 ton Quickdraw or Anvil as a spotter, with 60 tubes supporting.

MAD-4A wrote:I am currently working on a revised, and detailed, TO&E for BattleTech (Inner Sphere).
Currently the books state only that; 4 Mechs = a Lance (not 3 not 5 exactly 4), 3 Lances + 2 Aerospace Fighters (trans-atmospheric) = a Company (exactly 12 Mechs + 2 Fighters), Exactly 3 Companies = a Battalion (Exactly 36 Mechs + 6 Fighters) and Exactly 3 Battalions = a Regiment (108 Mechs + 18 Fighters). No infantry, no Vehicles, no Artillery, no wiggle room. Infantry are listed as 28 men per standard platoon, 21 men per Jump (jet-pack) Platoon and 4 men per Battle armor (power-armor) platoon. No info (I’m aware of) is given for conventional vehicle units (though it’s generally assumed to parallel Mechs).

With this ‘standard’ TO&E the Regimental Commander is also the commander of 1st battalion (there is no “other” slot for him), likewise the Battalion Commander (and for 1st that’s the Regimental Commander) is also the 1st Company Commander and the commander of the 1st lance of the Company. Now on the Lance/Company levels that works, but on the higher levels, you have one guy running the entire Regiment, and 1st Battalion and 1st Company and 1st Lance all at the same time!

In some of the books they mention “Reinforced” units – which is generally taken to mean they have an extra unit of the next smaller size (4 Companies for a Reinforced Battalion) but that’s not specified anywhere. There are a couple of books that list basic unit stats, such as; 1st (So&So Guard/Dragoon etc…) Regiment, 3 Mech Battalions and 1 Infantry Battalion, or something to that effect. I’m working on a full detailed (and flexible) TO&E up to Regimental level (So 3 Mechs per “Short Lance”, 4 Mechs per “Lance”, 5 Mechs per “Reinforced Lance”) Vehicles are almost the same but use the term “Platoon” instead of “Lance”. Fighters (and conventional Aircraft – which are generally not used) are 2 Per “Flight”, 3 per “Heavy Flight” (specified not normal but the result of odd-man-out due to attrition/lack of reinforcements), Squadron instead of Company (2Flights/4 fighters for a “Light Squadron”, 3Flights/6fighters for a “Squadron”, 4 Flights/8fighters for a “Heavy Squadron”) I also specified that Battalions and Regiments have a “Command Company” in addition to those listed, these include a “Command Lance/Platoon” an “Artillery Platoon” and a “Security Platoon” (usually Infantry).
Any Ideas, I was in the Navy, I have a Strong grasp of ground warfare though, but there may be a few unit designations that I haven’t heard of yet, I did break down the Infantry into Teams and Squads and dropped the Battle armor down a peg (really they thought 4 guys in power armor is = to 4x 20-100 ton Battlemechs in relative strength ) I made 2 suites a “Team” and 3-6 suits a “Squad” (1-3 teams). That’s the # that game sheet generator (Heavy Metal Pro) prints them in so it should be kept as a firm number range. For regular infantry, I made 2-3 man “Teams” and 2-3 teams + a trooper (leader) a Squad and 2-4 Squads (14-28 men) a Platoon (which corresponds to their numbers – more or less – but doesn’t rule out a {say} 17 man – under-strength Platoon for example). I know that – like plans - no TO&E survives contact with the enemy and allowances should be made for odd numbers and flexibility.

This is another game that I played and loved and have all the rule books (I think in the garage) along with a box full of Star Fleet Battle rules and all the captain's logs. All gather dust...

One could of course use all 30 ton or a mix of 20 & 30 ton Urban Mechs.

It would be much cheaper and easier to lift.

In Urban warfare you get a few seconds to hit then move or snipe then adjust. Missile lrm in particular don't work well because you fire at me and by the time your missiles fly to me I'm behind a building, SRM are a bit better but they get intercepted so easily. You need to hit fast. Hit as hard as you can and keep moving. AC20 are urban wonder weapons. MRM 40 are great because they don't follow a target and hit a building, they fly to a space and with timing block fire dash or choke points.

Most Urban fighting is hit and run. Running too fast doesn't work as you can't turn and up close some missiles and AC don't work. If you do walk into a fire fight, it is often a circling affair and again missiles and AC don't work well. Big Mechs also run into problems, but then in Mechwarrior Big Mechs are depicted way to big. Most people fail to see that a 90 ton Mech is not 3x as tall as a 30 ton Mech, 45% taller? Anyhow a big heavy Mech can't accelerate or turn very fast can't target smaller Mechs well and makes a big target, especially up close. In the Various Mechwarrior Deathmatches in the cities one would chew up Daishi which couldn't turn, couldn't move and couldn't escape ones heavy weapons while being eaten by pulse and single shot lasers. Smaller Mechs that stop get killed, really quick. I understand in turn based combat your missiles always hit and indirect fire never hits a building a turn is a turn, shooting between buildings as you run past doesn't really work. In real combat it is much different. Most of your Titans would be so chewed up after two or three encounters they just become targets. The other problem with singular big Mechs is that as they take damage they get weaker. Multiple small Mechs always leave a fresh Mech or two, to go in for a kill. Urban fighting is very different than open terrain.

Lord Skimper wrote:One could of course use all 30 ton or a mix of 20 & 30 ton Urban Mechs.

It would be much cheaper and easier to lift.

In Urban warfare you get a few seconds to hit then move or snipe then adjust. Missile lrm in particular don't work well because you fire at me and by the time your missiles fly to me I'm behind a building, SRM are a bit better but they get intercepted so easily. You need to hit fast. Hit as hard as you can and keep moving. AC20 are urban wonder weapons. MRM 40 are great because they don't follow a target and hit a building, they fly to a space and with timing block fire dash or choke points.

Most Urban fighting is hit and run. Running too fast doesn't work as you can't turn and up close some missiles and AC don't work. If you do walk into a fire fight, it is often a circling affair and again missiles and AC don't work well. Big Mechs also run into problems, but then in Mechwarrior Big Mechs are depicted way to big. Most people fail to see that a 90 ton Mech is not 3x as tall as a 30 ton Mech, 45% taller? Anyhow a big heavy Mech can't accelerate or turn very fast can't target smaller Mechs well and makes a big target, especially up close. In the Various Mechwarrior Deathmatches in the cities one would chew up Daishi which couldn't turn, couldn't move and couldn't escape ones heavy weapons while being eaten by pulse and single shot lasers. Smaller Mechs that stop get killed, really quick. I understand in turn based combat your missiles always hit and indirect fire never hits a building a turn is a turn, shooting between buildings as you run past doesn't really work. In real combat it is much different. Most of your Titans would be so chewed up after two or three encounters they just become targets. The other problem with singular big Mechs is that as they take damage they get weaker. Multiple small Mechs always leave a fresh Mech or two, to go in for a kill. Urban fighting is very different than open terrain.

What are you talking about???? You can't shoot then run without me shooting back the same turn (unless your playing Solaris 7) If you have LoS with your ER-LLs and LBX-AC then I have LoS with LRMs, also I don't need LoS with them, only the spotter needs it. The LRM carriers can hide and the 2 spotters move forward, get LoS on one of your mechs and the rest cut loose and rain down on you, LoS or no LoS.

Also the Book is quite specific that ALL Mechs are 12 meters tall (regardless of weight), yes the minis vary in size but all Mechs are 2 (6m) Levels tall, otherwise Light Mechs would be 1 level tall.