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US Presidential Candidates

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by smr   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:31 am

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No! This occurred in Houston!

Annachie wrote:smr, wss that vote fraud stuff southern texas, the district that was damn near run by the Mexican cartels?


Just asking.

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Eyal   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:41 am

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smr wrote:No! This occurred in Houston!

Annachie wrote:smr, wss that vote fraud stuff southern texas, the district that was damn near run by the Mexican cartels?


Just asking.

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Could you give a cite for more details?
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by smr   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:12 am

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Now, I know why a person wanted more info...Google Search yielded too many links even when the search was narrowly defined. A person has to do a narrowly defined search on the local paper (http://www.chron.com) as he beats his head against the table. I will not do that again!

http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/deerpark/news/article/Voter-registration-irregularities-found-in-Harris-9429708.php

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Tax-assessor-nonprofit-spar-over-Harris-voter-1701380.php
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by The E   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:43 am

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smr wrote:Great...you don't like I cited Townhall. Fine no problem! What is the Alt Right? What is the definition of the term?


"Alt-Right" is the current term for what was previously called neo-fascism*. It's a modern movement propelled to the forefront of political discourse because of its ability and willingness to use modern media channels to great advantage (or, to be more precise, its ability and willingness to exploit the structural weaknesses of those channels**).

There is no strict, formal definition of what the alt-right believes and stands for, but the most successful strands (exemplified by Breitbart et al) all incorporate white nationalism, nativism, antifeminism and a good handful of anti-islam and anti-LGBTQ sentiment. People who subscribe to the alt-right mindset also find common ground in their rejection of traditional media, claiming them to be irreparably damaged and biased by liberal influences. Incidentally, this leads to them being pretty much incapable of independent fact checking; the alt-right has no immune system against false news, and in their search for supposedly neutral sources of information consistently finds only sources which agree with their preconceptions.


*: Fascism as defined by Umberto Eco's Essay Eternal Fascism
**: By abusing the moderation systems on websites like Twitter or Reddit and using classic internet trolling tactics
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Eyal   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:03 am

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smr wrote:Now, I know why a person wanted more info...Google Search yielded too many links even when the search was narrowly defined. A person has to do a narrowly defined search on the local paper (http://www.chron.com) as he beats his head against the table. I will not do that again!

http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/deerpark/news/article/Voter-registration-irregularities-found-in-Harris-9429708.php

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Tax-assessor-nonprofit-spar-over-Harris-voter-1701380.php


Apparently they were unable to actually prove anything (they tried to get them for a felony involving copying registration forms - despite the forms specifically stating they were required to keep copies) given that no charges were filed.

Also

Vasquez said his office had found thousands of faulty voter registration forms submitted by Houston Votes, including duplicate registrations and non-citizens trying to register. In one case highlighted by Vasquez, one person had tried to register six times.
...
Houston Votes quickly admitted that some of its registrations shouldn’t have been submitted. They were honest mistakes, not fraud, said Fred Lewis,who heads the Houston Votes, which often happen during a large-scale registration drive. He says the group has fired the canvassers who submitted invalid voter registrations.

“It’s not a pristine process and everyone knows that,” Lewis said. “Common mistakes by canvassers aren’t fraud.”

Indeed, it’s difficult to see how voter fraud could have resulted from these flawed registrations. The non-citizens checked the non-citizen box on each form, and the tax assessor office easily weeded them out. If these non-citizens were trying to commit voter fraud and vote illegally, why wouldn’t the they have simply checked the “citizen” box on the registration form? Why openly admit they’re non-citizens so the authorities could toss out their registrations? If this was organized fraud, it was one of the worst—and most obvious—frauds ever attempted.

The more likely scenario is that these several dozen non-citizens didn’t know they couldn’t vote and filled out a card, which the canvassers let slide, perhaps because they wanted to get paid, and Houston Votes didn’t catch the faulty cards amid the 25,000 registration cards it was processing at the time.

Even the person who tried to register six times with the same address and the same name—had that person been successful—still could vote only once. A person can show up with six registration cards, but if you’ve got the same name and the same address, you probably can vote just once.

If this person wanted to vote six times, why wouldn’t she submit different names or different addresses to help mask her identity?

I looked over the voter cards in the power point that Vasquez presented at his press conference. The woman who tried to register six times lists the same address on each card. What’s interesting is that the registration cards were filled out by five different canvassers, and all on the same day.

It’s pretty clear what happened. Houston Votes was canvassing a neighborhood and in a bit of disorganization, numerous canvassers hit the same houses, perhaps some were trying to pile up cards to increase their pay. The evidence here seems to support Lewis’ claim of honest mistakes.


In addition, while I'm not sure this is the case in Texas, my understanding is that in most states registration drive workers cannot, by law, reject or throw out a registration card even if they know it's fraudulent - it must be submitted to the state government, who are they only ones allowed to reject them.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Annachie   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:09 am

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Cool smr. Everything I saw was dubious sources or just "we're investigating something but wont say what"

As reliable as the report that one county in Wisconsen may have half the voting machines fiddled with.

Time will tell I suppose.

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:11 am

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No, Australians have been arguing that.

I started by responding to Daryl's comments about the US preference for a weak federal government. I merely commented that our view of sovereignty is different than yours. I believe it is better, but obviously you guys disagree. Not arguing that at all.

My point is that Brexit and perhaps something similar happening in France would argue that a movement to reclaim government authority closer to the individual is in the wind. This is the opposite of strengthening the federal government. Is that better or worse than moving towards a unified world government? That's something we can argue, if you wish.
Annachie wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
Didn't mention Australia in my posts, did I? France's view of sovereignty is collective not individual. That difference is what my post discusses. The distinction is important. I wonder if you understand that?


You've been arguing soverign power with Australians, and saying that the US is unique in it.



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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:18 pm

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smr wrote:Great...you don't like I cited Townhall. Fine no problem! What is the Alt Right? What is the definition of the term?


The AP:

https://blog.ap.org/behind-the-news/wri ... -alt-right


Short version: it's a term white nationalists and white supremacists came up with to try to legitimize themselves by getting people to call then that instead of the more clear "racists".

And the media never should have gone along with it, but they did... although now they seem to be waking up a little... although it's a bit late...
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:00 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
smr wrote:Great...you don't like I cited Townhall. Fine no problem! What is the Alt Right? What is the definition of the term?


The AP:

https://blog.ap.org/behind-the-news/wri ... -alt-right


Short version: it's a term white nationalists and white supremacists came up with to try to legitimize themselves by getting people to call then that instead of the more clear "racists".

And the media never should have gone along with it, but they did... although now they seem to be waking up a little... although it's a bit late...


I agree that the "Ideology" seems rather more than a bit fuzzy. Don't the conspiracy theorists, especially the great Zionist conspiracies like "The Elders of Zio" also get umbrellaed into the Alt right? or am I still confused?

Seems most of the writing is more imflammatory or misleading than informative.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by The E   » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:50 am

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WeirdlyWired wrote:I agree that the "Ideology" seems rather more than a bit fuzzy. Don't the conspiracy theorists, especially the great Zionist conspiracies like "The Elders of Zio" also get umbrellaed into the Alt right? or am I still confused?


Nah, conspiracy theories are an integral part of the alt-right mindset (see for example Pizzagate, where emails from the Podesta leak that included the word "Pizza" suddenly became evidence of a large pedophile ring inside the democratic party).

Seems most of the writing is more imflammatory or misleading than informative.


It is hard to describe fascists in ways that aren't inflammatory.
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