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US Presidential Candidates

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Annachie   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:23 am

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OK, I just read tha Trump is looking at David Petraeus as sec state.

Seriously, what the actual fuck?

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by The E   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:31 am

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Annachie wrote:OK, I just read tha Trump is looking at David Petraeus as sec state.

Seriously, what the actual fuck?


On another forum, I remarked that it was a good thing that Trump ackknowledges the need for continuity in foreign policy; that he chose to use "mishandles classified files" as the point of continuity is a bit weird though.

It is interesting to see this though. It's yet another display of just how far Trump and his handlers intend to go in terms of hypocrisy and how far his supporters are willing to follow this particular course.

(Also, fun fact: As part of his probation agreement, his probation officer has unrestricted access to any and all documents Petraeus handles. Have fun with that.)
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Annachie   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:35 am

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Honestly, I suspect Trump puts out names like this as a distraction.

But still.

Oh, on a diferent note, one of Trump's campaign staffers was just found guilty of 10 counts of elction fraud. Granted from a few years ago, but what campaign hires someone who hs been charged with election fraud to workan election?

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Eyal   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:21 am

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PeterZ wrote:Totally agree. Yet, the local political parties that these .... inefficiencies.... benefit do not want to change the corrupted system. The only way to force changes is to expose the extent of the problems. Periodic review and cleansing of the rolls and re-registration for everyone is a good place to start.


Off the top of my head, I can only think of two ways to do that without significant changes (including greater centralization):

1) Greatly increase the frequency of purges of invalid voters from the rolls.
2) Purge the rolls completely after every election.

Both options will greatly increase the efficacy of voter disenfranchisement efforts; the second one in particular is going to be a major hassle for citizens, given the frequency of elections in the US.

Either way, this is going to be expensive - will voters accept higher taxes for the purpose?

PeterZ wrote:Thank you, Daryl. Your progressive POV has confirmed to me that the US and those that voted for Brexit are on the riight path. We here in the US, Houston included, revel in regional autonomy and eschew as much as possible federal authority. After all, when regional governments get it wrong, only a few suffer and the rest of the country learns a lesson. When the Feds eff up, everyone suffers. Obamacare anyone?

Yup, go, Great Britain, and reclaim your sovereignty from Brussels, while we in the US attempt to reclaim some modicum of authority back from the Feds. The wailing of proggies just affirms we are doing something right.


That is of course your prerogative, but then don't start blaming corruption (and/or the other party) for the drawbacks inherent in your chosen system.

smr wrote:Tenshinai sometimes I think your intellectual idiot. Smart as tack but dumb as a rock. Here in Houston, they were using dead people voting and people that had not voted in the past couple of elections. When Paul Bennencourt came in as Harris County Tax Assessor/Collector. The problem was so bad that he purged the voter roles and required everyone to register and did a signature validation. This resulted in Texas adopting the policy of having an ID to vote. Even though this has continually been challenged in the Courts by the Obama Admin. Second, we had groups like Acorn registering people that were never voting but were voting through absentee ballots. These groups that were registering people to vote, they were falsifying the info. Now, I wonder why they were falsifying the info?
Perhaps these groups were interested in registering people to vote or were they interested in creating a list for certain individuals to commit voter fraud?

Is it very hard to register to vote? No! We need an ID to open a bank account, to work...etc..etc...etc...to vote Now!


IIRC, they were defrauding ACORN.

As I recall, the workers in question were essentially contract workers being paid by the number of people they registered. So they just made up voters to pad their counts.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Tenshinai   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:27 am

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Annachie wrote:I wonder if Peter understands that in Australia, Soverign power explicitly lies with the people?

As it does in France.


Oh no, you´re obviously wrong, because that would mean his delusions were actually, you know, delusional...

And he obviously knows otherwise so clearly reality will just have to adjust!

Seriously though, constitutionally, the same is true here even if governments coming and going is usually handled in parliament.

And as Daryl noted, people in USA have overall LESS actual ability to affect their government than in many other nations.
This kinda makes PZs great declamations more than a little bit ridiculous and absurd, i think.

And i know of no other nation that is not more dictature or oligarchy than democracy, that works so hard to keep it´s citizens from voting.

Annachie wrote:Oh, on a diferent note, one of Trump's campaign staffers was just found guilty of 10 counts of elction fraud. Granted from a few years ago, but what campaign hires someone who hs been charged with election fraud to workan election?


Marvellous! :lol:

Of course he needed an expert on the matter, so he could be certain of how many illegal votes Clinton got, clearly! :twisted:
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Annachie   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:31 am

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Hey Biochem.

30 seconds of research does wonders.

California requires SS numbers to enrol to vote, and the electoral comission (or whatever their name is) being a government agency can CHECK THOSE SS NUMBERS FOR CITIZENSHIP STATUS.

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:50 am

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Annachie wrote:I wonder if Peter understands that in Australia, Soverign power explicitly lies with the people?

As it does in France.



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Didn't mention Australia in my posts, did I? France's view of sovereignty is collective not individual. That difference is what my post discusses. The distinction is important. I wonder if you understand that?
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:53 am

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Eyal, I don't blame the system, but do recognize the constraints improving the system must work within.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:42 am

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Daryl wrote:I read what you say and just shake my head. Regardless of whichever way you read it the average US citizen is no more possessing of individual sovereignty than any other citizen of a developed country. Neither are they any more empowered to make their own decisions than anyone else.
As I have pointed out other countries often have more responsive mechanisms. No way could you sack five presidents in five years as we did, and the Swiss have their referendas.
This seems to be a US right fantasy along with the belief that owning individual weapons would enable you to overthrow an elected government, and that it would be ethical to do so.


All the examples you cite are not individual expressions of sovereignty, but collective. My point stands for most of Europe. Obviously, that's how they like it. Equally obviously as Brexit displayed, there is a move away from greater centralization of power in Europe. France is next to chime in. We'll see if they prefer to have more localized sovereignty of continue to subsume more of their sovereignty into the European Union.

My initial point focused on the difference in perceived sovereignty between the US and Europe. The US view holds that sovereignty resides in individuals not in any collective. Europe prefers a collective view of sovereignty. Brexit suggests that even Europe is revisiting their preference on sending more of their sovereignty away from home and keeping more closer to the individual.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by gcomeau   » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:16 pm

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PeterZ wrote:The difference is where the authority to make most of those decision stems from.


And as I just rather clearly pointed out to you there is no difference.

In the US: Citizens.
France? Citizens.
Britain? Citizens.
Canada? Citizens.
Australia? Citizens.
Germany? Citizens.
Spain? Citizens.
Italy? Citizens.
Greece? Citizens.
Sweden? Citizens.
New Zealand? Citizens.

Etc...

Because they **ALL REGULARLY ELECT THEIR GOVERNMENTS.**
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