Where from here

So where does safehold go from here?

CathyH wrote:So where does safehold go from here?

Ah CathyH...

Now that is the $64,000 question...I suspect that many of us need to "catch up" to David before we will be ready for that.
Hope to see your comments towards that goal in several of these chat rooms

There are going to be some people i'm going to call Reconciliationists in Charis and similar. Reformers who'll say "Yes, Jasper Clinton was a bastard but he's dead and Mother Church has been fixed, we should reestablish bonds."

There would also be a conflict of interest between the Nimues and the Imperial Crown. Kalyeb and Sharlien have an obligation to their people first while Nimue's objective is raising the level of technology for all of Safehold, including those areas which are Charis's rivals. Spreading technology far and wide to as many willing minds as possible is in the Nimues' best interst, while mantaining a monopoly on high technology is in Kalyeb's.

Zor

imperatorzor wrote:There are going to be some people i'm going to call Reconciliationists in Charis and similar. Reformers who'll say "Yes, Jasper Clinton was a bastard but he's dead and Mother Church has been fixed, we should reestablish bonds."

Don't see this happening, leastwise, not in Charis or Siddarmark. ESPECIALLY not in Siddarmark. Too much blood has been spilled, and not directly by the Grand Fornicator himself, but by the Temple Loyalists and the rest of the COGA as well. It will be generations before that could possibly healed. Just think of the reactions of the people of Glacierheart to see how well that would work.

imperatorzor wrote:There would also be a conflict of interest between the Nimues and the Imperial Crown. Kalyeb and Sharlien have an obligation to their people first while Nimue's objective is raising the level of technology for all of Safehold, including those areas which are Charis's rivals. Spreading technology far and wide to as many willing minds as possible is in the Nimues' best interst, while mantaining a monopoly on high technology is in Kalyeb's.

Zor

Slight misinterpetation of the Nimues' mission. Their mission is the destruction of the Proscriptions and the COGA, and creating an innovative/technological mindset, so that humanity can win round 2 vs the Gbaba. They do not need to give anyone else the best toys to do this, in fact that would probably be quite detrimental to that long term goal, after all if someone destroys Charis the likelihood of them pulling it off are slim.

Besides if Cayleb and Sharleyan had been tempted to create a tech monopoly they wouldn't be getting ready to spread railroads to the mainland nor would they have built the Haaralds, both of which were singled out in the books as the hooks to try to accomplish those goals.
Does Charis plan on hanging on to the tech edge (especially militarily)?
Undoubtedly, unless you want to postulate that their collective IQ is going to drop rather drastically.

imperatorzor wrote:There are going to be some people i'm going to call Reconciliationists in Charis and similar. Reformers who'll say "Yes, Jasper Clinton was a bastard but he's dead and Mother Church has been fixed, we should reestablish bonds."

There would also be a conflict of interest between the Nimues and the Imperial Crown. Kalyeb and Sharlien have an obligation to their people first while Nimue's objective is raising the level of technology for all of Safehold, including those areas which are Charis's rivals. Spreading technology far and wide to as many willing minds as possible is in the Nimues' best interst, while mantaining a monopoly on high technology is in Kalyeb's.

Zor

Well, that depends quite a lot on which economic theories you believe. You seem to think they should be protectionist, while others would believe that free trade will produce the greatest growth. (A third lot will believe that Free Trade will work out especially great for those who are ahead at the start of the process, whatever it does to everybody else.) Do they want a bigger % share of the existing pie, or a smaller % share of a (much) bigger pie? After all, you can only export what other countries can afford to buy. Didn't I read somewhere that Old Charisians were 'all' merchants and shippers?

Note also what Shayvaan says about the textev.

Charris will build fleets of metal ships powered by steam, this could force the mainland nations to construct canals, road ways and railroads to get a logistical advantage across the different kingdoms.

Those kingdoms that were defeated in battle and face retaliation, would have to adapt their enemies tactics and weapons to ensure their protections. The boogy man of charis would make them advance themselves.

The republic will want revenge and security, so adopt the advancements. I could see the republic marching on dohlar, silkiah and the border states. The border states would be depleted of weapons and men, so vulnerable to military action. They also no long have church financial backing. Actions against silkiah and dohlar would get imperial aid, so long as canal access is given over.

SYED wrote:Charris will build fleets of metal ships powered by steam, this could force the mainland nations to construct canals, road ways and railroads to get a logistical advantage across the different kingdoms.

Those kingdoms that were defeated in battle and face retaliation, would have to adapt their enemies tactics and weapons to ensure their protections. The boogy man of charis would make them advance themselves.

The republic will want revenge and security, so adopt the advancements. I could see the republic marching on dohlar, silkiah and the border states. The border states would be depleted of weapons and men, so vulnerable to military action. They also no long have church financial backing. Actions against silkiah and dohlar would get imperial aid, so long as canal access is given over.

The Republic is a co-guarantor with the EOC of the perpetual independence of the Grand Duchy of Silkiah. I would visualize Siddarmark and the EOC as being friends and allies for a long time to come.

I don't see the Republic transgressing against its neighbors. But I do see the Republic building its army to its pre SoS size with modern weapons as a deterrent against any potential aggression.

Don

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Those who are doom and gloom about Charis forget that all the people in power have massive historical records, including what happened post WWI and II. Cayleb and Sharelyn know what happened to the world, and have enough weight to make it stick. They will try to push globalization.

Siddarmark will likely start sabre rattling in the future, especially against Desnair and Harchong. I can see wars there, and I'm not sure Charis would be entirely broken hearted. I think the next book series will have conflicts there as they, as well as Sodar (what little we know) haven't been resolved.

Dohlar will be in a weird spot as now officially an ally of Charis, but there isbad blood on both sides, as well as with Dohlars former allies. I can even see them outstripping Charis, maybe causing some dissent between them.

The Temple Lands: wild card. Depends how secure Duchairn is. . .

The archangels' return will come up in less than 20 years.

If revisionists on the Church side don't grab power and steer towards WWII even faster than in RL in the 20th century (where it took 21 years from one war to the next) then the archangels will be back before war breaks out.

The question then is: Will the returning archangels accept that the status quo has change irreversibly and reconcile with the original mission?

Bruno Behrends wrote:The archangels' return will come up in less than 20 years.

If revisionists on the Church side don't grab power and steer towards WWII even faster than in RL in the 20th century (where it took 21 years from one war to the next) then the archangels will be back before war breaks out.

The question then is: Will the returning archangels accept that the status quo has change irreversibly and reconcile with the original mission?

I suspect the Inner Circle's Plan Omega is to have technology spread so wide by the Return that those that awaken have a binary solution set: kill everyone (or as close to it as to be indistinguishable) to prevent meeting the Gbaba again or revert to the original Operation Ark plan and begin preparing to face the Gbaba in earnest.