SLN Logistics

munroburton wrote:
As for Crandall - there is no mention of her fleet train during the Spindle sequence. However, I may finally have an explanation for the slightly odd numbers of her screen - 24 BC, 12 CA, 23 CL, 18 DD. I bet she detached 1 CL and 6 DD to keep an eye on her fleet train.

Do you really think someone portrayed the way she was portrayed in the book and with such seemingly overwhelming force would bother to detach the fleet train?

It might be that those are the only FF ships available and the other 1 CL and 6 DD's were off bringing freedom to someone in the verge.

Sigs wrote:

munroburton wrote:
As for Crandall - there is no mention of her fleet train during the Spindle sequence. However, I may finally have an explanation for the slightly odd numbers of her screen - 24 BC, 12 CA, 23 CL, 18 DD. I bet she detached 1 CL and 6 DD to keep an eye on her fleet train.

Do you really think someone portrayed the way she was portrayed in the book and with such seemingly overwhelming force would bother to detach the fleet train?

It might be that those are the only FF ships available and the other 1 CL and 6 DD's were off bringing freedom to someone in the verge.

Nevertheless, there is no mention of her fleet train at all in Spindle. Not once.

We're not talking about half a dozen freighters either - this was a six or twelve month long deployment with the better part of four hundred thousand Solarian spacers to support, as well as seventy wallers hundreds of light years out of their comfort zone. Crandall's fleet train should've been as large as Filareta's(minus his extra Marines) - who launched directly from a staging base.

Weird Harold wrote:
Two SDs can only chase down two ships of an eight to ten ship convoy. Eight to Ten BCs can run don most if not all of them. Adm Kingsford is sending Frontier Fleet commerce raiding, not deep infrastructure raiding.

Where exactly do you see Manticore employing convoys? Either to any number of Havenite systems or Talbot and Silesia all of which would have some very heavy defences compared to obsolete BC's. If they send those BC's to neutral systems to raid Manticoran merchant traffic those systems will likely not be affluent enough require a convoy of 8-10 freighters in the entire region let alone one system. Plus if they are traveling in a convoy likely there would be an escort, maybe Manticoran, maybe Havenite which means that even if there are a handful of DDs and CLs escorting those freighters the BC's squadrons would get creamed because they don't need to be destroyed, just damaged enough to not be able to leave. The best bet for this to have any chance of success would be to send BC's in to systems and take out singleton freighters, once they start tangling with escorts their mission ends quickly either through destruction or severe damage to end their mission.

Weird Harold wrote:
What BCs? That paragraph was addressing specifically the eight squadrons of SDs my decision to send 500 BCs raiding would leave without logistics support.

If you only had finished reading the rest of the paragraph I was answering to...

Weird Harold wrote:That decision leaves you with (at least) eight squadrons of the wall without support other than what those squadrons can provide for themselves. Luckily they have very big ships which normally carry large quantities of the kinds of supplies their squadron mates need; why not share out supplies from a quarter or third of your ships and send them back to a base or Depot to resupply and return?

Weird Harold wrote:Adm Kingsford isn't going to micromanage the commerce raiding, he's simply going to send a general order to all units to "Implement Case Buccaneer," or whatever the code word for the contingency planning for wide scale commerce raiding might be.

Which means that all the BC's will choose the systems as far away from the GA as possible and most likely end up with a large % of his raiding fleet in a sector of space with slim pickings... the only realistic way for this to bring any sort of success would be to direct the task forces to attack specific shipping routes which would require specific direction since after all you need to know where the rendezvous would be with the supply SD's right?

Weird Harold wrote:
Of course I realize that perishables is probably the least of a warship's logistics needs. But every single item that can be obtained locally is one less thing that too few transport hulls have to transport.

And what about the spare part they can't actually transport? Or the fuel, munitions etc etc etc...
-Are the SD's designed with the ability to carry BC sized missiles in their magazines?
-How would they transfer those missiles from their Magazines to those of the BC?
-A fleet train involves a lot more than just the ability to bring supplies and spares to a forward deployed unit, it involves bringing the ability to do some repairs using those spares otherwise you write off a ship for some minor damage because it cannot be repaired even if the spares are on hand.

Weird Harold wrote:The lack of experience probably led to larger fleet trains than Crandall and Filareta actually needed. That in turn suggests that a larger percentage of Fleet Train assets have been lost (captured) than most estimates account for. Also, I believe textev says that the SLN didn''t have all that many fleet-owned logistic/support ships to start with; they relied on civilian contract shipping which is in extremely short supply.

So? Are you making my point for me? They know nothing about logistics in war, they don't have the fleet train to begin with and you think the first thing they come up with would be the use of SD's to support those operations, SD's mind you that have limited space to begin with... they might have a lot of wasted space but it is divided into small sections which makes it less than useful.

Weird Harold wrote:Even with all that taken into account, there is NOT enough shipping available in the Solarian League to fulfill the requirements. Somebody, somewhere is going to have to "improvise, adapt and overcome."

And the way the SLN in general is portrayed, who would that be?

munroburton wrote:
Nevertheless, there is no mention of her fleet train at all in Spindle. Not once.

We're not talking about half a dozen freighters either - this was a six or twelve month long deployment with the better part of four hundred thousand Solarian spacers to support, as well as seventy wallers hundreds of light years out of their comfort zone. Crandall's fleet train should've been as large as Filareta's(minus his extra Marines) - who launched directly from a staging base.

There is no mention of a lot of things in the books, some thing we assume because of the situation.


Besides, Filareta jumped from a staging base, but was that staging base a Battle Fleet base that could support those SD's or was it a staging base outside the core that usually saw a few dozen light ships at most? If it was a major base in the core then Fleet train would be small, if it was a minor base then they would still require the fleet train.

How much space would the potential commerce raiding ships have available? That means they would either need to meet up with supply ships regularly, or visit depot stations. Since raiding is a dispersed action, I think supply stations make more sense. They would be how ever easier to identify and eliminate by the alliance.

Sigs wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:
What BCs? That paragraph was addressing specifically the eight squadrons of SDs my decision to send 500 BCs raiding would leave without logistics support.

If you only had finished reading the rest of the paragraph I was answering to...

Weird Harold wrote:That decision leaves you with (at least) eight squadrons of the wall without support other than what those squadrons can provide for themselves. Luckily they have very big ships which normally carry large quantities of the kinds of supplies their squadron mates need; why not share out supplies from a quarter or third of your ships and send them back to a base or Depot to resupply and return?

You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension.

try: "Luckily squadrons of the wall have really big ships..." That whole paragraph referenced ONLY the "eight squadrons of the wall" which does NOT include any BCs.

Sigs wrote:Besides, Filareta jumped from a staging base, but was that staging base a Battle Fleet base that could support those SD's or was it a staging base outside the core that usually saw a few dozen light ships at most? If it was a major base in the core then Fleet train would be small, if it was a minor base then they would still require the fleet train.

Filareta was conducting a forward deployment to the shell/verge exercise similar to Adm Crandall's. There was no base to speak of at his jumping-off point.

Sigs wrote:

munroburton wrote:
Nevertheless, there is no mention of her fleet train at all in Spindle. Not once.

We're not talking about half a dozen freighters either - this was a six or twelve month long deployment with the better part of four hundred thousand Solarian spacers to support, as well as seventy wallers hundreds of light years out of their comfort zone. Crandall's fleet train should've been as large as Filareta's(minus his extra Marines) - who launched directly from a staging base.

There is no mention of a lot of things in the books, some thing we assume because of the situation.


Besides, Filareta jumped from a staging base, but was that staging base a Battle Fleet base that could support those SD's or was it a staging base outside the core that usually saw a few dozen light ships at most? If it was a major base in the core then Fleet train would be small, if it was a minor base then they would still require the fleet train.

Yes, I concede it's an assumption either way. I just don't believe the Sollies are stupid enough that they'd blithely drag a horde of freighters into a shooting combat zone.

Solarians might believe Battle Fleet is invincible. They don't think the same of their freighters.

My point is, Crandall almost certainly had more freighters, since Filareta's force only had a voyage half as long without an extended exercise component at the end of it. And it was expected he would be able to use the Beowulf terminus to resupply/return.

And that, launching from a staging base, Filareta could have left behind any freighters his fleet had emptied during their wait for the Cataphract missiles. They'd have to anyway - to support the 600-ship second wave converging on the same base. Whereas Crandall might have kept all her freighters together for her entire operation, start to finish. Again, I concede she could have sent empties back as singletons.

Since no mentions of them were made, I'd prefer to conclude they were either too few in numbers to be significant or never entered Spindle/Manticore. Banking on those ships being captured when there's no mention at all of such is unduly optimistic.

Weird Harold wrote:

Sigs wrote:Besides, Filareta jumped from a staging base, but was that staging base a Battle Fleet base that could support those SD's or was it a staging base outside the core that usually saw a few dozen light ships at most? If it was a major base in the core then Fleet train would be small, if it was a minor base then they would still require the fleet train.

Filareta was conducting a forward deployment to the shell/verge exercise similar to Adm Crandall's. There was no base to speak of at his jumping-off point.

Granted there's no textev for it, but I imagine it is at least a minor Frontier Fleet base. Not even a Hancock or Grendelsbane, but more like Sidemore before the High Ridge ceasefire - somewhere that never had waller visits before, mainly set up to support cruiser patrols.

Huh? You park your freighters somewhere both convienent and out of the way. Preferably somewhere easy to get into hyper, like around some piece of rock a few AUs out in a red dwarf system. Space is big, nobody is going to trip over them.

Weird Harold wrote:
You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension.

try: "Luckily squadrons of the wall have really big ships..." That whole paragraph referenced ONLY the "eight squadrons of the wall" which does NOT include any BCs.

And who are those big ships that can carry supplies their squadron mates need? Are you reefering to Freighters?