Usefullness of Captured Ships

If the SLN manages to capture any GA ships that are operations if damaged, how useful would it be for them? Meaning would it give them a chance for the League to survive even in a much reduced size or is the League to far gone?


I don't know about anything else but the SD(P)'s are a simple concept and can be copied quickly, it is the technology in the ship that makes it such a powerful weapon. So if the SLN decides to start designing and building SD(P)'s with the ability to plug in sensors and fire control computers as they become available they could have the ships designed and build in 3-5 years. If they design it such a way to be able to add electronics later on or at least easily modify them could a captured fully operational Roland or Sag C be a windfall for them or would they be hard pressed to duplicate anything usefll.

Sigs wrote:If the SLN manages to capture any GA ships that are operations if damaged, how useful would it be for them? Meaning would it give them a chance for the League to survive even in a much reduced size or is the League to far gone?


I don't know about anything else but the SD(P)'s are a simple concept and can be copied quickly, it is the technology in the ship that makes it such a powerful weapon. So if the SLN decides to start designing and building SD(P)'s with the ability to plug in sensors and fire control computers as they become available they could have the ships designed and build in 3-5 years. If they design it such a way to be able to add electronics later on or at least easily modify them could a captured fully operational Roland or Sag C be a windfall for them or would they be hard pressed to duplicate anything usefll.

Let's see what David said on the topic....

Theemile wrote:

Sigs wrote:If the SLN manages to capture any GA ships that are operations if damaged, how useful would it be for them? Meaning would it give them a chance for the League to survive even in a much reduced size or is the League to far gone?


I don't know about anything else but the SD(P)'s are a simple concept and can be copied quickly, it is the technology in the ship that makes it such a powerful weapon. So if the SLN decides to start designing and building SD(P)'s with the ability to plug in sensors and fire control computers as they become available they could have the ships designed and build in 3-5 years. If they design it such a way to be able to add electronics later on or at least easily modify them could a captured fully operational Roland or Sag C be a windfall for them or would they be hard pressed to duplicate anything usefll.

Let's see what David said on the topic....

The big big problem the SLN has is they're 3-4 generations behind the RMN. A good analogy would be the USN first Dreadnaught USS South Carolina vs last Generation Dreadnaught USS Iowa.

Speed
SC 18.5 knots
IA 33+ knots

Max gun range
SC 18000 yds with improved propelant 22000 yds.
IA 42000 yds

Fire Control
SC spotting tops
IA FC computer with FC Radar

saber964 wrote:The big big problem the SLN has is they're 3-4 generations behind the RMN. A good analogy would be the USN first Dreadnaught USS South Carolina vs last Generation Dreadnaught USS Iowa.

It doesn't matter, they don't have to run through all that, they can just cut to the chase. And they don't need to match the RMN on a 1:1 basis. 1:5 would work. What they need to do is get kills. But David has decided to have the books feature exciting battles of spear armed savages getting run over by tank battalions. Oh, please show me more.

Depends. I think they wouldn't get their hands on a modern RMN ship for a variety of reasons. Terekhov's example at Hyacinth. No one wants to be the next Harry Styles.

The essential tech lacking on the Solarian side is quite simple and small - it's the multi-drive baffles which make MDMs possible. Without that, the SLN can only build multi-drive missiles if they make them long enough to separate the drives. Scotty was talking about the Havenites being able to do this off-the-shelf if they had to, back in AoV - indeed, I don't think it's been clarified whether RHN MDMs are those kind of missiles or whether they use baffle technology acquired via the Erewhonese.

Miniaturised FTL comms come a close second. However, the SL is large enough that it can afford to use DDs in the same way the RHN used LACs as expendable forward-deployed relay nodes for their non-FTL RDs - if they can get a FTL-com installed in a DD, of course. Admiral Byng(not the best judge of naval matters) believed it could only be done in larger ships...

And so on. The thing to remember is, the RMN are very good at keeping their tech out of enemy hands - despite several losses and captures during the first war with Haven, the PN never really reverse-engineered much. Their Mars-classes were notably overpowered in anticipation of acquiring the improved compensator technology - and that didn't happen until Erewhon signed a mutual defense pact.

Shannon Foraker even got a good look at HMS Wayfarer - essentially the first field test of both the CLAC and podlayer concepts - years before Operation Buttercup was even on the horizon. It didn't help them until many, many years later.

One of the biggest Problem of the Solarian Navy is their Ego!

If you think: "That couln´t happen, because we are the mightiest!" Then things never will Change.

If someone in the right Position starts Thinking: "How do they do that?" and "What weapons are available and how can we beat them with that weapons!"

Remember: the masadans kill the manticorian president with armed sensor probes from the solarian league. What if someone in the league remember the Story and think it could be a good idea to jump into a manticorian System, deploy hundreds or thousands of such probes and jump out. That would be a possible way of trade raiding, because the probes would act like a minefield in the System.

If the solarians get their Hands on a manicorian ship or intact wreck, then they can see the technic concepts behind Multi drive missles, grav comm and compensators, if they are intact. They still would need years to create usefull ships with that knowledge.

kzt wrote:

saber964 wrote:The big big problem the SLN has is they're 3-4 generations behind the RMN. A good analogy would be the USN first Dreadnaught USS South Carolina vs last Generation Dreadnaught USS Iowa.

It doesn't matter, they don't have to run through all that, they can just cut to the chase. And they don't need to match the RMN on a 1:1 basis. 1:5 would work. What they need to do is get kills. But David has decided to have the books feature exciting battles of spear armed savages getting run over by tank battalions. Oh, please show me more.

The sad thing is, I'm currently thinking that RFC has inflated the capabilities of the Scientist class in order to reduce this impact. Still working out the details, but I'll hopefully add a post with my analysis soon.

WLBjork wrote:

kzt wrote:quote="saber964"]
The big big problem the SLN has is they're 3-4 generations behind the RMN. A good analogy would be the USN first Dreadnaught USS South Carolina vs last Generation Dreadnaught USS Iowa.

It doesn't matter, they don't have to run through all that, they can just cut to the chase. And they don't need to match the RMN on a 1:1 basis. 1:5 would work. What they need to do is get kills. But David has decided to have the books feature exciting battles of spear armed savages getting run over by tank battalions. Oh, please show me more.

The sad thing is, I'm currently thinking that RFC has inflated the capabilities of the Scientist class in order to reduce this impact. Still working out the details, but I'll hopefully add a post with my analysis soon.[/quote]
If you want another analogy try looking at the RW battle of Surigao Strait. It may not be on point but it is worth looking at. The Japanese tried to run the gauntlet with ships with no RADAR against American ships equipped with (for the most part) the latest in surface search and fire control radar IIRC 2 ships had Mk 3 & 4 FCR and the rest had Mk 8 & 12/22 FCR and one had a brand new Mk13 FCR.

kzt wrote:

saber964 wrote:The big big problem the SLN has is they're 3-4 generations behind the RMN. A good analogy would be the USN first Dreadnaught USS South Carolina vs last Generation Dreadnaught USS Iowa.

It doesn't matter, they don't have to run through all that, they can just cut to the chase. And they don't need to match the RMN on a 1:1 basis. 1:5 would work. What they need to do is get kills. But David has decided to have the books feature exciting battles of spear armed savages getting run over by tank battalions. Oh, please show me more.

Wrote that. They were matchlocks, not tanks. They lost.

saber964 wrote:If you want another analogy try looking at the RW battle of Surigao Strait. It may not be on point but it is worth looking at. The Japanese tried to run the gauntlet with ships with no RADAR against American ships equipped with (for the most part) the latest in surface search and fire control radar IIRC 2 ships had Mk 3 & 4 FCR and the rest had Mk 8 & 12/22 FCR and one had a brand new Mk13 FCR.

Though the Japanese got handled pretty heavily in the Strait by the torpedoes of the destroyers patrolling the shorelines before they even reached the battleline. Running 2 BBs and 1 CAs and 4 DDs through a gauntlet of 28 DD firing from both sides is dicy even if you weren't following it up by bumping headfirst into 3 times your battleships supported by 4 times your heavy cruisers.

(There were also a fair number of PT boats, but they were much less effective torpedo platforms that the larger, more stable, DDs with their greater numbers of torpedoes and superior fire control)