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Very Disappointed....

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Very Disappointed....
Post by pbplace   » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:36 pm

pbplace
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I am very disappointed in the new Honorverse book. I wasted my money on a retelling of the same story that was told in the last four books. Shadow of Victory should have started from the end of Cauldron of Ghosts, with Michelle showing up to kick Mesa butt. Instead it begins BEFORE the battle of manticore and introduces TOO MANY new (and unnecessary) characters. If Weber has run out of ideas, he should stop writing the books. I have loved this series from the beginning, but will not be buying any more.
Carolyn
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Re: Very Disappointed....
Post by NervousEnergy   » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:01 pm

NervousEnergy
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pbplace wrote:I am very disappointed in the new Honorverse book. I wasted my money on a retelling of the same story that was told in the last four books. Shadow of Victory should have started from the end of Cauldron of Ghosts, with Michelle showing up to kick Mesa butt. Instead it begins BEFORE the battle of manticore and introduces TOO MANY new (and unnecessary) characters. If Weber has run out of ideas, he should stop writing the books. I have loved this series from the beginning, but will not be buying any more.
Carolyn

We've gone over it ad-nauseam here in the forum, but Himself needed the story to set up who would be where for the big final finish.

If you've read all of the Honorverse to this point, I'd have to shake my head at not buying the next one, as DW has stated it'll end the Honor Harrington main story sequence. Yes, I could have done without knowing the gritty details of the revolution on various Eastern European Planets with tough names, but it was still a fun read in and of itself.
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Re: Very Disappointed....
Post by cthia   » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:03 pm

cthia
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pbplace wrote:I am very disappointed in the new Honorverse book. I wasted my money on a retelling of the same story that was told in the last four books. Shadow of Victory should have started from the end of Cauldron of Ghosts, with Michelle showing up to kick Mesa butt. Instead it begins BEFORE the battle of manticore and introduces TOO MANY new (and unnecessary) characters. If Weber has run out of ideas, he should stop writing the books. I have loved this series from the beginning, but will not be buying any more.
Carolyn

I suspect that the Authorial Note, at the beginning of Storm From The Shadows still rings true. The canvas has become quite large. Larger than even the author himself had imagined...

An Authorial Note

Many readers will notice that some of the earlier chapters in this book retell, or fill in between, events which occurred in At All Costs. The retold material constitutes a very small portion of the entire book, and there is a definite method to my madness in taking this approach.

Once upon a time, in the simpler days of yore when I first began the Honor Harrington series, I hadn't quite visualized the scale of the project upon which I'd embarked. I always knew the story that I wanted to tell, and I'd always intended to arrive at the portion of the story line of which this book is a part. What I hadn't really counted on was the degree of detail, the number of characters, and the sheer size of the canvas I was going to end up with.

It isn't often that a writer is blessed with the response the Honor Harrington books have generated. When it happened to me, I was deeply gratified, and that's still true today. I also think that when readers are kind enough to support a series as strongly as these books have been supported, the writer has not only a special relationship with his readers, but also a special responsibility to them. At the same time, when a series extends through as many novels (thirteen, including Shadow of Saganami and Crown of Slaves) and anthologies, the writer sometimes finds himself forced to consider taking the storyline in directions of which not all of his readers are likely to approve. There's a fine balance between going where you know you have to go with a book and worrying about how you meet that special responsibility to your readership. And, to be honest, the Honor books reached that point about two novels ago.

-snip-
Bolded text is mine, not the author's.

I've reserved myself to trust his driving from the back seat and enjoy the scenery.

"Are We There Yet?"

Almost!


****** *


You don't owe the author anything. But if you've been with the series from the beginning, you owe yourself the final book. And you owe the story. Don't quit now when the end is nigh.

Here's hoping that you reconsider.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Very Disappointed....
Post by Sully   » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:06 pm

Sully
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I'm glad I checked the forum before purchasing. I suspect I'll be passing on this one.

cthia wrote:
You don't owe the author anything. But if you've been with the series from the beginning, you owe yourself the final book. And you owe the story. Don't quit now when the end is nigh.

Here's hoping that you reconsider.


Perhaps at some point in the future. From the library. Why not quit now? I've been reading on momentum rather than emotional involvement for a couple books now. At this point most of my emotional involvement and curiosity about the books is just disgust at the retelling and morbid curiosity about whether Honor will be suffering from grief or gratuitous violence will cause others to suffer.
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Re: Very Disappointed....
Post by Theemile   » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:10 am

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Sully wrote:I'm glad I checked the forum before purchasing. I suspect I'll be passing on this one.

cthia wrote:
You don't owe the author anything. But if you've been with the series from the beginning, you owe yourself the final book. And you owe the story. Don't quit now when the end is nigh.

Here's hoping that you reconsider.


Perhaps at some point in the future. From the library. Why not quit now? I've been reading on momentum rather than emotional involvement for a couple books now. At this point most of my emotional involvement and curiosity about the books is just disgust at the retelling and morbid curiosity about whether Honor will be suffering from grief or gratuitous violence will cause others to suffer.


While I echo the comments concerning the book many others have, I do recommend reading it. It is a good read, by itself; it just re-covers territory told in other books, from other perspectives. In this, it is an important book in that it fills in many details not covered in other books. It does wrap up several outstanding questions most here have about the ongoing story, it just does not move the overall storyline along as we believed it would.

Unfortunately, the official pre-published book synopsis is... little more than a lie. We can hope it is better suited to the next novel But it is completely misleading, and the source of so much of our collective consternation.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Very Disappointed....
Post by munroburton   » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:09 am

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Agree with Theemile. Here's the synopsis from Amazon(with errors included):

The Mesan Alignment is revealed, and, forHonor Harrington and the Manticoran Star Kingdom, thismeans war! Unintended Consequences Sometimes things don t work out exactly as planned. The Mesan Alignment has a plan one it s been working on for centuries. A plan to remake the galaxy and genetically improve the human race its way. Until recently, things have gone pretty much as scheduled, but then the Alignment hit a minor bump in the road called the Star Empire of Manticore. So the Alignment engineered a war between the Solarian League, the biggest and most formidable interstellar
[Read more]
power in human history. To help push things along, the Alignment launched a devastating sneak attack which destroyed the Royal Manticoran Navy s industrial infrastructure. And in order to undercut Manticore s galaxy-wide reputation as a star nation of its word, it launched Operation Janus a false-flag covert operation to encourage rebellions it knows will fail by promising Manticoran support. The twin purposes are to harden Solarian determination to destroy the Star Empire once and for all, and to devastate the Star Empire s reputation with the rest of the galaxy. But even the best laid plans can have unintended consequences, and one of those consequences in this case may just be a new dawn of freedom for oppressed star nations everywhere. About Shadow of Freedom This entry is just as exciting as Weber s initial offering. . . The result is a fast-paced and action-packed story that follows [our characters] as they move from reaction to command of the situation. Weber builds Shadow of Freedom to an exciting and unexpected climax. Daily News of Galveston About Mission of Honor, #13 in the Honor Harrington series: Weber combines realistic, engaging characters with intelligent technological projection and a deep understanding of military bureaucracy in this long-awaited Honor Harrington novel . . .Fans of this venerable space opera will rejoice to see Honor back in action. Publishers Weekly This latest Honor Harrington novel brings the saga to another crucial turning point . . .Readers may feel confident that they will be Honored many more times and enjoy it every time. Booklist About David Weber and the Honor Harrington series: . . . everything you could want in a heroine . . . Excellent . . .plenty of action. Science Fiction Age Brilliant! Brilliant! Brilliant! Anne McCaffrey Compelling combat combined with engaging characters for a great space opera adventure. Locus"


Mesan Alignment revealed. War! War with League - biggest, formidable. Rebellions, devastate, rest of the galaxy and new freedom everywhere.

I'm not saying it was mis-sold - the blurb does technically indicate the book concentrates on Operation Janus, the MA's false-flag rebellions. But it certainly wasn't the main thrust.

With 20/20 hindsight, I would've led the blurb with Operation Janus. Forget about explaining Oyster Bay - it happened like three books ago!
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Re: Very Disappointed....
Post by pbplace   » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:54 pm

pbplace
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I am forced to disagree with any defense of this last book. It was not necessary to confuse us with all of these unnecessary new characters and subplots. For those of you who believe Weber is positioning all of his characters in this book for the big showdown in the next - my response is: He could have done that in two chapters at the beginning of the final book. Instead he apparently caved to his publisher's demands to provide a new book and make them $$$$$$$. As I stated in my previous post, I will not be purchasing his next book and I will not be recommending it to any of my customers. Oh, did I mention that I own a small independent book store?
Carolyn
The Paperback Place
82 S. Main St.
Canandaigua, NY
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Re: Very Disappointed....
Post by isaac_newton   » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:20 pm

isaac_newton
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pbplace wrote:I am forced to disagree with any defense of this last book. It was not necessary to confuse us with all of these unnecessary new characters and subplots. For those of you who believe Weber is positioning all of his characters in this book for the big showdown in the next - my response is: He could have done that in two chapters at the beginning of the final book. Instead he apparently caved to his publisher's demands to provide a new book and make them $$$$$$$. As I stated in my previous post, I will not be purchasing his next book and I will not be recommending it to any of my customers. Oh, did I mention that I own a small independent book store?
Carolyn
The Paperback Place
82 S. Main St.
Canandaigua, NY


That's a shame - but why not suspend judgement until you actually read the next book?
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Re: Very Disappointed....
Post by Relax   » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:57 pm

Relax
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isaac_newton wrote:That's a shame - but why not suspend judgement until you actually read the next book?

Because she has to make money goober. If your book shelf space is full of crappy books of authors who used to write good stuff and who hasn't for 5 years, guess what? Throw it out.

PS.She didn't say anything about not holding book space for his older good books which have a thing called a relevant plot. This book was an anthology book put forward in disguise of a "real" book. As an anthology book it would have been good. As a book in a series, it is crap.
_________
Tally Ho!
Relax
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Re: Very Disappointed....
Post by RedBaron   » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:33 am

RedBaron

I think the last chapter of the final book should briefly outline what happened to the notable characters after all is done, kind of like what they did at the end of various movies in the 80's and 90's (such as "Stripes" and "animal house").

I think we'd ALL like to know where they went/what they did and so forth.

People like:
Abigail Hearns (first female Grayson to join the navy)
Scotty Tremaine
Horrace Harkness
Ginger Lewis
Abrey Wanderman
Michael Oversteegan
Thandi Palane
Victor Cachat
Anton Zilwicki
Berry Zilwicki
Rachael Mayhew & Hipper
Thomas Theisman
Lester Tourville
Shannon Foraker
Samantha
etc
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