(SPOILERS) Hot air ballons?

Isn't hydrogen just a special kind of air? And if you start producing helium, wouldn't that be much the same? Back during WWI there were plans for large dirigible "aircraft carriers" that could carry squadrons of biplanes. The concept was ultimately scrapped for the obvious reasons - extreme volatility of H2, extreme vulnerability of big gas bags to enemy planes, and so forth. But against an enemy without an Air Force, zeppelins would be perfect not only for recon but as bombers.

At this point they've already passed the thresholds of the Proscriptions. Both sides. All those special dispensations granted by the Inquisition have seriously eroded the boundaries even for the Church. It would be awfully hard to roll them back. I don't think further reaches are going to be nearly the problem for the EoC that they might've been before the jihad.

ecortez wrote:Isn't hydrogen just a special kind of air? And if you start producing helium, wouldn't that be much the same? Back during WWI there were plans for large dirigible "aircraft carriers" that could carry squadrons of biplanes. The concept was ultimately scrapped for the obvious reasons - extreme volatility of H2, extreme vulnerability of big gas bags to enemy planes, and so forth. But against an enemy without an Air Force, zeppelins would be perfect not only for recon but as bombers.

At this point they've already passed the thresholds of the Proscriptions. Both sides. All those special dispensations granted by the Inquisition have seriously eroded the boundaries even for the Church. It would be awfully hard to roll them back. I don't think further reaches are going to be nearly the problem for the EoC that they might've been before the jihad.

I suspect the "special kind of air" is the loop hole that Peter used to get around the problem and, while I don't recall that the proscriptions were clearly dealt with, that is one of the main goals of the inner circle so, it has to be cleared out of the way... besides, balloons were not the issue for the Mighty Host or even the church members who commented on them... they could not figure out how the ICA kept them up so long without fire but they were not specifically fearful that they were demonic.

A few months ago, I though of the Zeppelin for bomber and maybe for propaganda when the time came to move on Zion. I willingly admit that David took a more effective approach than I had in mind with the broadsheets that everyone was used to seeing and which they had come to trust.

I do think that Zeppelins would make a nice intermediate transportation tool on Safehold and I have found enough evidence that the safety risks could be reduced, especially if Owl produced a sealant which was not as volatile as that which sealed the Hindenburg.

Whatever happens next, too many people would freak out if the inner circle tried to jump too far too fast with technology but Charis (and maybe the temple) could find a way to provide communications with a low enough profile to reduce the chance that they would be detected from space... (the church is used to God eye)and Charis is used to innovation.

evilauthor wrote:IIRC, the balloon idea basically boils down to the following:

1) It is well within Charis' technical abilities to make. The Church's too, although it'd be much more expensive for them because of their over-reliance on manual labor for making things like steel-thistle silk and whatnot.

Make yes--understand how to make, no. The church has no notion of hydrogen.

2) The real question is whether the Writ (or at least the Writ as interpreted by most of Safehold) forbids balloon use through disallowing flight. Certain powers are reserved for the "Angels" and flight is almost certainly one of those.

Balloons existed, what the church couldn't understand is how they could go so high for so long, and without any fire. (Coal-powered hot air balloons aren't going to be too useful.)

3) With SNARC surveillance and a huge tech lead, Charis quite simply doesn't need balloons. Which means that whether they get balloons or not depends entirely on their willingness to fight the resulting religious battle involved to make balloons acceptable. In the middle of an actual religious war, they'd probably decide (if they haven't already) the distraction of such a fight isn't worth the minuscule gains.

Balloons exist to get that intelligence to the soldiers without seijin intervention. As such, they're very useful.

Duckk wrote:Guys, stop raising old threads just to post spoilers in them. The moratorium on discussing AtSoT without a spoiler warning is still in effect.

On my screen this thread shows as (SPOILERS) Hot air balloons?

Loren Pechtel wrote:On my screen this thread shows as (SPOILERS) Hot air balloons?

Look to the left. There are dates under each person's names, which is when they posted the message.

You quoted a post I made in 2014.

Loren Pechtel wrote:

Duckk wrote:Guys, stop raising old threads just to post spoilers in them. The moratorium on discussing AtSoT without a spoiler warning is still in effect.

On my screen this thread shows as (SPOILERS) Hot air balloons?

Yeah, after I edited the topic title.

evilauthor wrote:

Loren Pechtel wrote:On my screen this thread shows as (SPOILERS) Hot air balloons?

Look to the left. There are dates under each person's names, which is when they posted the message.

You quoted a post I made in 2014.

Actually, the date under the persons name is when they joined the forum; which you did in 2014. But none of your posts here, in fact none of the posts in this thread, predate May 2016 (7 months ago).[1]

Still before the book came out, but hardly a couple years ago


[1] Unless Duckk did a heavier moderating job than I think and manually split these posts off from an even older thread after you posted the above.

Well... I am the one that duckked it up! While still reading through on my first pass, I was inspired to look up a posting form May 2016... I should have added SPOILER to the subject line but did not realize that I could do such a thing till Duckk pointed it out to me.

Now... I am much more careful.

I was pleasantly surprised that hot air balloons already existed and that the Inquisition had no problem with them. Since balloons work based on the principle of air power - hot air as far as the CoGA knew, and lighter than air in Charis' version thanks to Paityr Wylsynn's interpretation that the type of air used made no difference in the Proscriptions, nobody raised a hue and cry of "Demons," when they saw them, although everybody wondered how Charis kept them in the air so long. I was worried that mere humans engaging in flight might cross a line that even Clyntahn wouldn't grant a dispensation to allow, and it turns out it was old, fairly well-known tech.

I'm happy to say that I predicted both types of balloons - the army and navy versions, although I'm not the only one with that claim to fame. Any time we guess what the twisted mind of RFC will deem allowable tech and actually uses pretty much as we suggested is a major win!