(SPOILERS) What did Hauwerd tell Duchairn?

"My bet is that at his trial (if he lives to see it) he'll express himself and act in such a way as to elicit an oh crap moment from everyone present, making them realize that, this whole time, they've been following the commands of someone who is certifiably, demonstrably, clinically insane."
*****
If he comes to trial, enough people will likely know the "truth" and the "truth" is really what Clynthan has been saying about the threat to the Church and the plan for man.

Steve

SHV wrote:"My bet is that at his trial (if he lives to see it) he'll express himself and act in such a way as to elicit an oh crap moment from everyone present, making them realize that, this whole time, they've been following the commands of someone who is certifiably, demonstrably, clinically insane."
*****
If he comes to trial, enough people will likely know the "truth" and the "truth" is really what Clynthan has been saying about the threat to the Church and the plan for man.

Steve

I agree. It is doubtful that he will survive long enough to come to trial. But if he does, being demonstrably insane won't prevent his head from being rather messily separated from the rest of his circulatory system.

Don

Feeling VERY chuffed about this one now!

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wingfield wrote:It seems to me that the "ice-boat message" may have been the signal to Phandys (if he was, in fact, the secret ally) that everything was in place regarding the safety of the families and other contacts and that the Inquisition could now do its worst.

This would be consistent with the proposition that Phandys needed to be in the arrest party, to ensure that Hauwerd was not inadvertently taken alive. Phandys reporting the mysterious message to his superior could well have been the means to secure precise timing of the strike and so leave nothing to chance.

No doubt Hauwerd would also have known precisely when to have the report of the message reach Phandys.

Nevertheless, this is all still pure speculation because, while we know that Duchairn is "up to something", I don't think that any authorial hints have ever brought Phandys into the actual frame.

Welp. Now we know.

wingfield wrote:It seems to me that the "ice-boat message" may have been the signal to Phandys (if he was, in fact, the secret ally) that everything was in place regarding the safety of the families and other contacts and that the Inquisition could now do its worst.

This would be consistent with the proposition that Phandys needed to be in the arrest party, to ensure that Hauwerd was not inadvertently taken alive. Phandys reporting the mysterious message to his superior could well have been the means to secure precise timing of the strike and so leave nothing to chance.

No doubt Hauwerd would also have known precisely when to have the report of the message reach Phandys.

Nevertheless, this is all still pure speculation because, while we know that Duchairn is "up to something", I don't think that any authorial hints have ever brought Phandys into the actual frame.

Congratulations, you called that one more than a year out!

Tararoys wrote:Before he died, Hauwerd Wilsyn made it a point to run into Duchairn and slip a letter into his pocket. Bets on what it said?


I'm going to bet that it said, "Hold on for another 20 years. The archangels are coming to fix things then.

Textev is that the list was all the people that Hauwerd had lined up to stage a coup

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Phandys to come along on a major, and extremely sensitive, operation that was clearly and completely none of Phandys' business?
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my take on this (now) is that Phandys went to the major after slipping the transport request into the records so that Howard could be sure he would be able to be killed rather than taken alive for the question.

I think there's a certain irony with Hauwerd's Wylsynn's planned coup. If he had gotten enough support to pull it off originally as intended, it likely would have undercut the new administration's attempts to ultimately reform the CoGA.

Sure, they could institute new rules and reform, but Hauwerd Wylsynn would have created the unfortunate precedent of using violence to take over the Church. And he would have been SEEN doing this, which alone would have generated rumors that he did this solely for naked ambition and that "reform" was just a cover. And from there, it's only a short step to schisms, counter coups, and "Grand Vicars in exile". Basically, all the ingredients of a religious war with no clear good or evil side.

As it actually happened, there's NO QUESTION in anyone's minds who the good guys and bad guys are, and Duchairne's is the legitimate Grand Vicar as far as everyone is concerned. Of course, his and the CoGA's scope of authority has shrunk alot, but it's a relatively PEACEFUL shrunkeness compared to what actually happened IRL.

evilauthor wrote:I think there's a certain irony with Hauwerd's Wylsynn's planned coup. If he had gotten enough support to pull it off originally as intended, it likely would have undercut the new administration's attempts to ultimately reform the CoGA.

Sure, they could institute new rules and reform, but Hauwerd Wylsynn would have created the unfortunate precedent of using violence to take over the Church. And he would have been SEEN doing this, which alone would have generated rumors that he did this solely for naked ambition and that "reform" was just a cover. And from there, it's only a short step to schisms, counter coups, and "Grand Vicars in exile". Basically, all the ingredients of a religious war with no clear good or evil side.

As it actually happened, there's NO QUESTION in anyone's minds who the good guys and bad guys are, and Duchairne's is the legitimate Grand Vicar as far as everyone is concerned. Of course, his and the CoGA's scope of authority has shrunk alot, but it's a relatively PEACEFUL shrunkeness compared to what actually happened IRL.

Good point evil, but, look how close things came to having a Grand Inquisitor in exile. That would have been much worse.

C. O. Thompson wrote:

evilauthor wrote:I think there's a certain irony with Hauwerd's Wylsynn's planned coup. If he had gotten enough support to pull it off originally as intended, it likely would have undercut the new administration's attempts to ultimately reform the CoGA.

Sure, they could institute new rules and reform, but Hauwerd Wylsynn would have created the unfortunate precedent of using violence to take over the Church. And he would have been SEEN doing this, which alone would have generated rumors that he did this solely for naked ambition and that "reform" was just a cover. And from there, it's only a short step to schisms, counter coups, and "Grand Vicars in exile". Basically, all the ingredients of a religious war with no clear good or evil side.

As it actually happened, there's NO QUESTION in anyone's minds who the good guys and bad guys are, and Duchairne's is the legitimate Grand Vicar as far as everyone is concerned. Of course, his and the CoGA's scope of authority has shrunk alot, but it's a relatively PEACEFUL shrunkeness compared to what actually happened IRL.

Good point evil, but, look how close things came to having a Grand Inquisitor in exile. That would have been much worse.

Except that he is never going to be in exile. He will be away from the Temple, and Merlin an Nimue are going to be able to take him out, even if they don't catch him at the vineyard.