Nesbits

Louis R wrote:It helps to remember that Tony Nesbitt was also one of Giancola's people [and we know from the Detweilers that Giancola was _not_ theirs] but honest enough to recognise that Giancola was quite capable of cooking the negotiations with Manticore for his own advantage. His emotional states as reported by Nimitz are IMV fully consistent with that.

While it can be argued [and I have] that the Nesbitts must be a Star Line there is actually no direct evidence for it. There is, OTOH, evidence that not all members of the Star Lines are recruited into the onion on any level. So it is entirely possible that even if Jean Claude knows exactly what's going on - and will avoid contact with the 'cats by any means possible - Tony has never had any connection with the Alignment.

saber964 wrote:Okay there are two Nesbitts. First is Tony currently SecTrade in Pritchart's cabinet, the second is his cousin Jean-Claude who is a Lieutenant Colonel in security at the Department of State.

The probable reason why Tony has not been picked up is he isn't an Mesan agent but Jean-Claude hasn't been exposed to a Treecat yet. The reason why is he is a mid to upper level security agent at the State Department but was unlikely involved with security at the Plaza Falls Hotel where the negotiations took place. The security for the peace conference was probably handled by Presidential Security.

IMHO most if not all of the MAlign star lines were either wiped out or so severely trimmed back as to be nonexistent in government anymore. J-C Nesbitt is more than likely a paid agent of the MAign than anything else. Look back at SVW FoR and FiE. Most of the probable star lines in the Legislatulist were killed in the Harris Assassination or the purges later on and any that survived all that are either so minor in stature as to be nonexistent plus do you think anyone in the RH government or electorate is going to trust a Legislaturest anywhere near the government again.

Yeah but if I were setting up a network with the long game in mind, I would make sure that all of my people didn't end up in one class of people or one specific group etc... having 10,20,50 or 100 agents and having all of them being Legislatulist means they all die or fall from power at the same time if something bad happens. Same goes with infiltrating a nation like the SKM, having all of your agents belonging in the Liberal Party or the Conservatives or the Crown Loyalists means that once the party gets voted out of office your entire network becomes useless. I would assume that the long term planning meant that the people in question would be in different career classes, political parties and social classes to limit the possibility of one action or event from eliminating your entire network.

Sigs wrote:Yeah but if I were setting up a network with the long game in mind, I would make sure that all of my people didn't end up in one class of people or one specific group etc... having 10,20,50 or 100 agents and having all of them being Legislatulist means they all die or fall from power at the same time if something bad happens. Same goes with infiltrating a nation like the SKM, having all of your agents belonging in the Liberal Party or the Conservatives or the Crown Loyalists means that once the party gets voted out of office your entire network becomes useless. I would assume that the long term planning meant that the people in question would be in different career classes, political parties and social classes to limit the possibility of one action or event from eliminating your entire network.

There is one problem with your point. Haven hasn't had "one action or event," it has had several. First was the fall of the old system. This would have purged any active lines in the Legislaturlists, so the MAlign would have activated their sleeper lines. Then there were the ongoing purges during the CPS era, where most people in power had probably about a 50/50 chance of being ended. Then there was the McQueen incident, and the nuking of the Octogon. Anyone MAlign agents left over would probably have attempted to get into Saint-Just's new organizations. THEN there was the restoration of the Republic. Anybody who is charged with getting into positions of influence is probably not going to survive all of that.

crewdude48 wrote:

Sigs wrote:Yeah but if I were setting up a network with the long game in mind, I would make sure that all of my people didn't end up in one class of people or one specific group etc... having 10,20,50 or 100 agents and having all of them being Legislatulist means they all die or fall from power at the same time if something bad happens. Same goes with infiltrating a nation like the SKM, having all of your agents belonging in the Liberal Party or the Conservatives or the Crown Loyalists means that once the party gets voted out of office your entire network becomes useless. I would assume that the long term planning meant that the people in question would be in different career classes, political parties and social classes to limit the possibility of one action or event from eliminating your entire network.

There is one problem with your point. Haven hasn't had "one action or event," it has had several. First was the fall of the old system. This would have purged any active lines in the Legislaturlists, so the MAlign would have activated their sleeper lines. Then there were the ongoing purges during the CPS era, where most people in power had probably about a 50/50 chance of being ended. Then there was the McQueen incident, and the nuking of the Octogon. Anyone MAlign agents left over would probably have attempted to get into Saint-Just's new organizations. THEN there was the restoration of the Republic. Anybody who is charged with getting into positions of influence is probably not going to survive all of that.

Yes, the top leadership was wiped out several times first with the Legislatulist government then with the committee but that would be the leadership and their main supporters being wiped out. The one thing that the three successive Havenite government have in common is the Bureaucracy. Neither the committee nor the restored republic could have changed over the entire Bureaucracy or even a large portion of it, they would have eliminated anyone in a leadership position with the previous regime but ultimately they would have been unable to replace the millions of people that worked at different levels of the Bureaucracy. After every change in government some of your agents would step in to fill the void and provide you with influence in key positions while the rest of your people remain hidden in the millions of public service employees.

Unless they had very agents to begin with, they were extremely unlucky or terminally stupid they should still have agents in place. Also, after the collapse of one government and the elimination of a % of your agents along with that government I would think they would start to rebuild the network.

Sigs wrote:Yeah but if I were setting up a network with the long game in mind, I would make sure that all of my people didn't end up in one class of people or one specific group etc... having 10,20,50 or 100 agents and having all of them being Legislatulist means they all die or fall from power at the same time if something bad happens. Same goes with infiltrating a nation like the SKM, having all of your agents belonging in the Liberal Party or the Conservatives or the Crown Loyalists means that once the party gets voted out of office your entire network becomes useless. I would assume that the long term planning meant that the people in question would be in different career classes, political parties and social classes to limit the possibility of one action or event from eliminating your entire network.

The MAlign was probably concentrated in the Concervitives Libs and Progressive because of the Zilwicki Manpower files. IIRC only 3 or 4 Centerest and Crown Loyalists were listed in them. That's how the MAlign gets its hooks into a person. Also opposition parties still have influence whether in or out of power.

saber964 wrote:

Sigs wrote:Yeah but if I were setting up a network with the long game in mind, I would make sure that all of my people didn't end up in one class of people or one specific group etc... having 10,20,50 or 100 agents and having all of them being Legislatulist means they all die or fall from power at the same time if something bad happens. Same goes with infiltrating a nation like the SKM, having all of your agents belonging in the Liberal Party or the Conservatives or the Crown Loyalists means that once the party gets voted out of office your entire network becomes useless. I would assume that the long term planning meant that the people in question would be in different career classes, political parties and social classes to limit the possibility of one action or event from eliminating your entire network.

The MAlign was probably concentrated in the Concervitives Libs and Progressive because of the Zilwicki Manpower files. IIRC only 3 or 4 Centerest and Crown Loyalists were listed in them. That's how the MAlign gets its hooks into a person. Also opposition parties still have influence whether in or out of power.

My example was aimed at long term agents placed well before the Havenite war started. There is a difference in trust and reliability between someone bred to be your agent and someone blackmailed to be your agent.

And yes opposition parties have some influence but their influence diminishes greatly once out of power especially if their ideology is radically different from the party in power.