Another Spoiler: More new weapons

WeberFan wrote:I think I'd agree with you, Silverwall... But if the Church forces deploy them first, it tells me two things:
- It would represent a significant "first adopter" development for the Church forces - one of the first times that they've come up with a new weapon BEFORE the Charisians, and...
- It makes me even happier that the Charisians have access to the SNARC network and the associated remotes so they can see where the minefields are and can potentially avoid the worst of them.

The Church really didn't come up with sea mines before Charis. Charis knows about them, they simply did not pursue them because it was not in their interests to introduce them.

Mining is both offensive and defensive in nature. Offensive minelaying is usually conducted by submarines off of an enemy port to temporarily deny that ports use to the enemy. During both world wars several ships were likely sunk by offensive mining, one of the most notable examples is the HMHS Britanic off the coast of Greece. During WWII at least 25 ships were sunk by mines off of US ports out of our own mined area's. FYI there is a wreck of a Type VIID mine laying U-boat off the coast of NJ. If Charis wanted to conduct offensive mining it could drop mines near choke points to impede coastal traffic.

saber964 wrote:Mining is both offensive and defensive in nature. Offensive minelaying is usually conducted by submarines off of an enemy port to temporarily deny that ports use to the enemy. During both world wars several ships were likely sunk by offensive mining, one of the most notable examples is the HMHS Britanic off the coast of Greece. During WWII at least 25 ships were sunk by mines off of US ports out of our own mined area's. FYI there is a wreck of a Type VIID mine laying U-boat off the coast of NJ. If Charis wanted to conduct offensive mining it could drop mines near choke points to impede coastal traffic.

Offensive mining is much more difficult to do, especially without submarines or electronic navigation aids. The first use of offensive mining wasn't until WW1 and the sub deployed mines and high speed (steam) minelayers or subs. Given the tech base of safehold defensive mine instalations are much more plausable.

Church minesweeping could be very simple. Take a boat, and add something to make it deeper draft...even a wooden grate would do the trick. Put some possible heretics onboard, and tell them to row or sail in front of a ship leaving the harbor. If god lets them survive a dozen times, then they might be innocent. (Or, if they don't row, family gets sent to the Punishment forthwith.)

Church minesweeping could be very simple. Take a boat, and add something to make it deeper draft...even a wooden grate would do the trick. Put some possible heretics onboard, and tell them to row or sail in front of a ship leaving the harbor. If god lets them survive a dozen times, then they might be innocent. (Or, if they don't row, family gets sent to the Punishment forthwith.)

Ah.

Like minesweeping on land, by tapping your feet in front of you, with your eyes shut, and your hands over your ears.

NHBL wrote:Church minesweeping could be very simple. Take a boat, and add something to make it deeper draft...even a wooden grate would do the trick. Put some possible heretics onboard, and tell them to row or sail in front of a ship leaving the harbor. If god lets them survive a dozen times, then they might be innocent. (Or, if they don't row, family gets sent to the Punishment forthwith.)

The old maximum is every ship is a mine sweeper once.

Silverwall wrote:

saber964 wrote:Mining is both offensive and defensive in nature. Offensive minelaying is usually conducted by submarines off of an enemy port to temporarily deny that ports use to the enemy. During both world wars several ships were likely sunk by offensive mining, one of the most notable examples is the HMHS Britanic off the coast of Greece. During WWII at least 25 ships were sunk by mines off of US ports out of our own mined area's. FYI there is a wreck of a Type VIID mine laying U-boat off the coast of NJ. If Charis wanted to conduct offensive mining it could drop mines near choke points to impede coastal traffic.

Offensive mining is much more difficult to do, especially without submarines or electronic navigation aids. The first use of offensive mining wasn't until WW1 and the sub deployed mines and high speed (steam) minelayers or subs. Given the tech base of safehold defensive mine instalations are much more plausable.

Offensive mining wasn't very popular in the first place. IIRC the U.S. only built one the USS Argonaut a mod of the Narwhal class and like I posted earlier the KM only built 6 mine laying U-boats the RN mostly used regular subs with mines deployed by torpedo tube.

saber964 wrote:
[snip]

Offensive mining wasn't very popular in the first place. IIRC the U.S. only built one the USS Argonaut a mod of the Narwhal class and like I posted earlier the KM only built 6 mine laying U-boats the RN mostly used regular subs with mines deployed by torpedo tube.

The RN had a substantial surface fleet minelaying capability during WW2. There were 6 very fast Abdiel-class minelayers:– HMSs Abdiel, Latona, Manxman, Welshman, Ariadne, and Apollo. I've seen claims that HMS Manxman was capable of speeds in excess of 35 knots, and HMS Apollo was reputedly capable of 40 knots. That's a tremendous speed for a ship described as a cruiser.

There were also HMS Adventure (about the same size but rather slower – ca. 27 knots), 11 auxiliary minelayers (converted merchantmen), and a number of smaller craft, typically trawler size.

The fast minelayers laid 54% of the offensive mines set by the RN in WW2, and coastal forces set another 30%. Only 16% were set by submarines. See
http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Ops-Minelaying.htm
.

NHBL wrote:Church minesweeping could be very simple. Take a boat, and add something to make it deeper draft...even a wooden grate would do the trick. Put some possible heretics onboard, and tell them to row or sail in front of a ship leaving the harbor. If god lets them survive a dozen times, then they might be innocent. (Or, if they don't row, family gets sent to the Punishment forthwith.)

Against the unsophisticated mines that are all that could currently be deployed what happens if you simply have a low-draft ship sail while trailing a rope with floats connected to a chain? The chain will hit the mine, boom, but it's far enough away the ship escapes.

Or, how about a catamaran design? Design it to survive having one of the hulls blown up by a mine. If it hits a mine it's towed back for repairs. Mostly, though, it sweeps with the rope & chain approach.

The Impact of Mine Warfare Upon U.S. Naval Operations
During the Civil War

including pictures!