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Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.

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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by dscott8   » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:21 pm

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I'd like to take a longer view of recent history. The last time the US had a really healthy economy was during the administration of President Bill Clinton, and all of Washington probably knew that his policy-wonk wife deserved a major share of the credit. The GOP, which has always positioned itself as the party of business and economic wisdom, were afraid that America would realize that the Dems could manage the economy well. In desperation, they broke the old boy's code and (unsuccessfully) impeached Bill Clinton over the sort of extramarital affairs that most of them had had as well. Even after being acquitted, Bill Clinton left office boasting a three year budget surplus and the highest approval rating since WW II.

After Bill Clinton, G.W. Bush narrowly got into office only because the Supreme Court blocked the recount of Florida's "hanging chad" ballots. Dubya was a disaster, and only got re-elected (by the narrowest margin ever) because of attacks on John Kerry like the bogus "Swift Boat" smear, and Kerry's position on gay rights, for which the country was not yet ready.

All this time, the GOP's conspiracy-theory surrogates kept up a low-level campaign to denigrate the Clintons. The "body count", unfounded rumors about the Clinton's sex life and their daughter's "true" parentage, and so on. The internet is full of this crap.

Now comes a biggie: The GOP deliberately threw the 2008 election. They knew that after Dubya, they had no chance of winning, so they ran a ticket of the two biggest pains in the party's butt: John McCain, whose integrity often took him away from the party line, and Sarah Palin, whose wacky "Caribou Barbie" persona created a surge in the careers of female comics. But the key part of their plan was to encourage the candidacy of a junior Senator, an African-American with a foreign sounding name: Barack Hussein Obama. Their objective was to keep Hillary out of the White House, and to arouse the anger of racists and anti-Islamists against the Democratic party. They expected him to be a one-term President, and tried to ensure it by blocking all of his initiatives in Congress.

They were hoping to ride the backlash into the White House. To their amazement, Obama got re-elected, defeating the charisma-free Mitt Romney. Now, after four more years of Obama's gains in the face of their obstruction, they have doubled down on their hate machine by nominating a paranoid narcissist with a messiah complex, slinging every bit of conspiracy-theory mud they can find, and mobilizing a subculture of xenophobic bullies. It's a sign of their desperation that they are running someone with no political experience. They are slighting their traditional religious conservative base by running a multi-divorced, confessed adulterer and gambling tycoon. They have abandoned their once-firm fiscal conservatism in favor of a tax-dodging bankruptcy king who stiffs his subcontractors.

This election is the last gasp of a mortally wounded elephant. I used to support the Republican party, generally, back when their platform was fiscal responsibility in limited government. They lost me when the militant religious right drove their agenda. Now that they're so far out of sync with mainstream America, they're going to lose it all.
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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by Annachie   » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:37 pm

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It does explain Palin, though I think McCain was a perfectly good candidate.

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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by dscott8   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:09 am

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Annachie wrote:It does explain Palin, though I think McCain was a perfectly good candidate.

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John McCain is a perfectly good Presidential candidate, but he's not a doctrinaire Republican. He thinks for himself too much. They nominated him, knowing he would lose, because once a person runs for President and loses, they never get the spotlight back.
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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:38 am

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dscott8 wrote:I'd like to take a longer view of recent history. The last time the US had a really healthy economy was during the administration of President Bill Clinton, and all of Washington probably knew that his policy-wonk wife deserved a major share of the credit. The GOP, which has always positioned itself as the party of business and economic wisdom, were afraid that America would realize that the Dems could manage the economy well. In desperation, they broke the old boy's code and (unsuccessfully) impeached Bill Clinton over the sort of extramarital affairs that most of them had had as well. Even after being acquitted, Bill Clinton left office boasting a three year budget surplus and the highest approval rating since WW II.

After Bill Clinton, G.W. Bush narrowly got into office only because the Supreme Court blocked the recount of Florida's "hanging chad" ballots. Dubya was a disaster, and only got re-elected (by the narrowest margin ever) because of attacks on John Kerry like the bogus "Swift Boat" smear, and Kerry's position on gay rights, for which the country was not yet ready.

All this time, the GOP's conspiracy-theory surrogates kept up a low-level campaign to denigrate the Clintons. The "body count", unfounded rumors about the Clinton's sex life and their daughter's "true" parentage, and so on. The internet is full of this crap.


So far basically as it happened... but then you go off the rails:

Now comes a biggie: The GOP deliberately threw the 2008 election. They knew that after Dubya, they had no chance of winning, so they ran a ticket of the two biggest pains in the party's butt: John McCain, whose integrity often took him away from the party line, and Sarah Palin, whose wacky "Caribou Barbie" persona created a surge in the careers of female comics.

But the key part of their plan was to encourage the candidacy of a junior Senator, an African-American with a foreign sounding name: Barack Hussein Obama. Their objective was to keep Hillary out of the White House,


Ummm, no. Just plain no.

With the exception of a brief flirtation with Huckabee, McCain was the frontrunner among the GOP electorate as a whole for that entire election cycle. You could try making arguments some cabal among the GOP elites wanted to throw the election but the GOP electorate AS A WHOLE? Nonsense.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... n-192.html


They put him up because he had gravitas as a war hero and a reputation (deserved or not) for integrity that they thought would play well with independents after the fucking *disaster* of the Bush presidency and what it did to public opinion of the Republican party. They wanted to win.

And Palin got picked in a panic. Obama was kicking McCain's ass, and they leaped at a gimmicky pick they thought might energize their voter base.


and to arouse the anger of racists and anti-Islamists against the Democratic party. They expected him to be a one-term President, and tried to ensure it by blocking all of his initiatives in Congress.


That part is true... as has been widely reported this was their stated plan from day one. Obstruction at all costs, even in the middle of the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. Allow *nothing* to get done and blame any and all resulting damage to the country on Obama.

But then you go off the rails again...

They were hoping to ride the backlash into the White House. To their amazement, Obama got re-elected, defeating the charisma-free Mitt Romney. Now, after four more years of Obama's gains in the face of their obstruction, they have doubled down on their hate machine by nominating a paranoid narcissist with a messiah complex, slinging every bit of conspiracy-theory mud they can find, and mobilizing a subculture of xenophobic bullies. It's a sign of their desperation that they are running someone with no political experience. They are slighting their traditional religious conservative base by running a multi-divorced, confessed adulterer and gambling tycoon. They have abandoned their once-firm fiscal conservatism in favor of a tax-dodging bankruptcy king who stiffs his subcontractors.


Again, it was the GOP *base electorate* that nominated Trump. They have, quite simply, lost their fucking minds. The GOP elites have lost control of their own party, the last thing they wanted was Trump as their nominee but decades of feeding racist conspiracy theory saturated red meat to the most deplorable (yes, the term is damn well appropriate) segments of society in order to court their votes is finally coming home on them and they are reaping the whirlwind.
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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by Michael Everett   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:12 am

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Given certain comments made in the most recent Trump/Clinton debate, should the former get into power, Hillary will end up in jail.

Irrespective of whether or not she actually deserves it.

If that happens, American politics will most likely become "Win or Go To Jail", leading inevitably to the use of covert means such as blackmail, spying and assassination since it would be too risky not to use those methods.

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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:23 am

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A special presecutor is hardly a guaranteed conviction. His quip was well timed and will be replayed, but hardly a promise. Again, he does not have enough internal support in government to get away with squat. Clinton has proved she has enough pull to evade prosecution.

Dang, but Hillary is just an awful campaigner. She should have knocked him out already. After this past 48 hours, Trump should be toast. She let him back in the race. It appears her health is failing her as she is not making any campaign events past the 19th.

I honestly don't think she can manage to keep up the pace. Perhaps that's more a hope. Either way if she slows down that much, she risks loosing that consistent 2%-3% lead she's had.

Michael Everett wrote:Given certain comments made in the most recent Trump/Clinton debate, should the former get into power, Hillary will end up in jail.

Irrespective of whether or not she actually deserves it.

If that happens, American politics will most likely become "Win or Go To Jail", leading inevitably to the use of covert means such as blackmail, spying and assassination since it would be too risky not to use those methods.

Welcome to America, aka Columbia Mk II!

America Will Be Hated Again!
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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by Annachie   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:47 am

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True, but then the damning statement followed.

Clinton: "It's a good thing someone with [Trump's] temprament isn't in charge of the US legal system"
Trump: "because you'd be in jail"




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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:10 am

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The president isn't in charge of the legal system in the US. He is only in charge of law enforcement which in this case are the prosecutors. He does not control the judiciary or congress. Given that we know her emails were deleted after a subpoena from congress was issued, that obstruction of justice right there. That didn't happen because EVERYBODY was given immunity. Not to secure a conviction of the true decision makers, but simply to ensure everyone evaded justice.

His comments were not damning at all. The were right on. Most people not already firmly in her camp feel that way to some degree. Well in the US anyway.

Annachie wrote:True, but then the damning statement followed.

Clinton: "It's a good thing someone with [Trump's] temprament isn't in charge of the US legal system"
Trump: "because you'd be in jail"




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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:02 am

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PeterZ wrote:The president isn't in charge of the legal system in the US. He is only in charge of law enforcement which in this case are the prosecutors. He does not control the judiciary or congress. Given that we know her emails were deleted after a subpoena from congress was issued, that obstruction of justice right there. That didn't happen because EVERYBODY was given immunity. Not to secure a conviction of the true decision makers, but simply to ensure everyone evaded justice.

His comments were not damning at all. The were right on. Most people not already firmly in her camp feel that way to some degree. Well in the US anyway.


And ... what? Irving "Scooter" Libby was convicted sentenced and fined half a million only to have "Dubya" write him a full presidential pardon before the ink of the judge's signature on he sentence was dry. he served no time, paid nothing on the fine and got a full pardon.

So Clinton stretches out the special prosecutor investigation, buries the trial prosecutor in pre-trial motions. Gets lucky, Bernie gets elected president and writes her a pardon and immunity from prosecution even before Justice Roberts can tuck Lincoln's Bible back into his robe. Clinton gets off ...again. Serves no jail time ..again. Clinton retires gracefully [ok, not so gracefully] to her pent house suite in Trump Tower and helps the hubby and offspring run their non profit for , well fun and profit.

Fun Stuff. How could such a good girl from such a good republican family go so horribly wrong? I did not and do not support Hillary Clinton. she should have contented herself with her senate seat after Obama trashed her so thoroughly 8 years ago. Too bad the DNC was so focused on getting the first woman elected president that they, like the republicans managed to get the worst possible candidate nominated.

And NO, I am not equating the DNC manipulation of the nominating process with the more "democratic" (for lack of a better term) elevation of Trump by the Tea Party and Alt Right.

May the chickens poop on both parties' heads.
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Re: Duckk said take Mrs Clinton\not in jail here.
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:39 am

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A Trump Presidency IS giving the pox to both houses. Actually prosecuting that sort of corruption is a move in the right direction. So what if appointing a special prosecutor is motivated by personal animus. The move will keep more politicians honest. If Trump wins, I want him to take a chainsaw to the current establishment. No one else in sight will even try. Hillary will further institutionalize the corruption.

WeirdlyWired wrote:
PeterZ wrote:The president isn't in charge of the legal system in the US. He is only in charge of law enforcement which in this case are the prosecutors. He does not control the judiciary or congress. Given that we know her emails were deleted after a subpoena from congress was issued, that obstruction of justice right there. That didn't happen because EVERYBODY was given immunity. Not to secure a conviction of the true decision makers, but simply to ensure everyone evaded justice.

His comments were not damning at all. The were right on. Most people not already firmly in her camp feel that way to some degree. Well in the US anyway.


And ... what? Irving "Scooter" Libby was convicted sentenced and fined half a million only to have "Dubya" write him a full presidential pardon before the ink of the judge's signature on he sentence was dry. he served no time, paid nothing on the fine and got a full pardon.

So Clinton stretches out the special prosecutor investigation, buries the trial prosecutor in pre-trial motions. Gets lucky, Bernie gets elected president and writes her a pardon and immunity from prosecution even before Justice Roberts can tuck Lincoln's Bible back into his robe. Clinton gets off ...again. Serves no jail time ..again. Clinton retires gracefully [ok, not so gracefully] to her pent house suite in Trump Tower and helps the hubby and offspring run their non profit for , well fun and profit.

Fun Stuff. How could such a good girl from such a good republican family go so horribly wrong? I did not and do not support Hillary Clinton. she should have contented herself with her senate seat after Obama trashed her so thoroughly 8 years ago. Too bad the DNC was so focused on getting the first woman elected president that they, like the republicans managed to get the worst possible candidate nominated.

And NO, I am not equating the DNC manipulation of the nominating process with the more "democratic" (for lack of a better term) elevation of Trump by the Tea Party and Alt Right.

May the chickens poop on both parties' heads.
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