Im wondering about desertion and mutiny in the solarian navy

I was listening to a podcast about ww1 and while it was talking about desertion and acts of non-violent disobedience amongst the troops I had a thought.

If the loss rates continue to be so lopsided, even without anymore direct assaults on manticor or their allies, how long till solarian sailors start to view attack orders as suicide and refuse to go. Especially if the solarian league starts shedding systems and people from those systems decide to go home. Although I haven't noticed much nationalism or overt pride in anyone's home systems.

It's unclear. A fair number of militaries have pretty much fought to the last bullet. But the whole "what are you fighting for" question with the SL seems difficult to find a really convincing answer.

ThisName1 wrote:I was listening to a podcast about ww1 and while it was talking about desertion and acts of non-violent disobedience amongst the troops I had a thought.

If the loss rates continue to be so lopsided, even without anymore direct assaults on manticor or their allies, how long till solarian sailors start to view attack orders as suicide and refuse to go. Especially if the solarian league starts shedding systems and people from those systems decide to go home. Although I haven't noticed much nationalism or overt pride in anyone's home systems.

Desertion from a ship underway is extremely difficult. See Randy Steilman and friends in HaE, for an example.

Mutiny in a crew of 6000 or so is also a difficult proposition. It's unlikely that a majority of an SD's crew could be organized to mutiny without exposing the plot. Especially in a ship underway.

Jumping ship (desertion in port) might become a problem resulting in cancellation of shore leave which would have a bad effect on morale and lead to a better chance of mutiny.

Even a successful mutiny of a single ship in a task force is a difficult proposition. I would require somewhat special circumstances for one ship in a squadron or task force to mutiny without retribution from the other ships in the squadron or task force.

I think sabotage is more likely than a mutiny that involves the entire ship. That would require only one or two conspirators making the chances of success much better. One person could take a ship out of a battle by shutting down reactors or the drive or a rogue navigator could get "lost" on the way to a battle.

Weird Harold wrote: I think sabotage is more likely than a mutiny that involves the entire ship. That would require only one or two conspirators making the chances of success much better. One person could take a ship out of a battle by shutting down reactors or the drive or a rogue navigator could get "lost" on the way to a battle.

Like at 3 bells. Oops! Sorry captain the reactor cores just jettisoned? Or: Oops! Sorry captain Navigation just blew up? Or would it be whole ships, captain and crew< refusing to join in fleet departure?

WeirdlyWired wrote:

Weird Harold wrote: I think sabotage is more likely than a mutiny that involves the entire ship. That would require only one or two conspirators making the chances of success much better. One person could take a ship out of a battle by shutting down reactors or the drive or a rogue navigator could get "lost" on the way to a battle.

Like at 3 bells. Oops! Sorry captain the reactor cores just jettisoned? Or: Oops! Sorry captain Navigation just blew up? Or would it be whole ships, captain and crew< refusing to join in fleet departure?

I don't think it would be quite that drastic, because there'd be a pulsar dart waiting for whoever sabotaged something; sabotage would have to be done very carefully and anonymously.

Weird Harold wrote:

WeirdlyWired wrote:Like at 3 bells. Oops! Sorry captain the reactor cores just jettisoned? Or: Oops! Sorry captain Navigation just blew up? Or would it be whole ships, captain and crew< refusing to join in fleet departure?

I don't think it would be quite that drastic, because there'd be a pulsar dart waiting for whoever sabotaged something; sabotage would have to be done very carefully and anonymously.

As of the last action (Filareta's folly), crews were eager to get into action and the ships had higher than average readiness. I wonder how long before the dogrobbers are losing their spares, inventories are delayed, and navigation errors start cropping up (are we going to Washington, DC or Washington, PA?; only dropped a decimal point or five?)

If Battle Fleet keeps trying for straight up fights, I expect to see top-down mutinies, where captains or even admirals balk at going into the meat-grinder. It's a lot easier to desert when you can take the whole ship with you.

noblehunter wrote:If Battle Fleet keeps trying for straight up fights, I expect to see top-down mutinies, where captains or even admirals balk at going into the meat-grinder. It's a lot easier to desert when you can take the whole ship with you.

I think that's the only way it would work successfully, on any ship of size any way.

It's been established that the Solly Marines are about the only part of the League military that hasn't wasted away- and most, if not all, fleet vessels carry a Marine contingent. If the Marines aren't on the mutineers side, a bottom up mutiny isn't going to work. If they aren't, you have fat, dumb and unhappy sailors that can barely do their own jobs going into combat on a ship with professionals- very, very good professionals with the training needed in that specific environment- that are opposing them.

What we are likely to see in the SLN is barraty. FYI Barraty is the gross misconduct of officers.

noblehunter wrote:If Battle Fleet keeps trying for straight up fights, I expect to see top-down mutinies, where captains or even admirals balk at going into the meat-grinder. It's a lot easier to desert when you can take the whole ship with you.

It's conceivable that this has already happened. The circumstances of Sandra Crandall's death is still a mystery to us readers. One of the possiblities include her expressing an intent to keep charging towards Spindle and being killed for it.

Mutiny isn't necessary if the 2nd in command is a more rational officer willing to surrender. Simply 'frag' the CO and let a more reasonable person clean the mess up, even if it does mean standing a court martial for murder.

It's a subject fraught with moral ambiguities. For example, Elvis Santino - what if someone had shot him when the Peeps showed up at Seaford 9 and he panicked? She would've been court-martialled for murder and possibly executed, but the better part of 30,000 RMN spacers could have escaped the slaughter Santino led them into.