"Obsolete SDs" Waste not...

jtg452 wrote:I don't see the logic of using them as training platforms.

That makes as much sense to me as training new auto mechanics on a fleet of 1973 Ford Pintos because you found a bone yard full of them or setting up a Computer Lit class using a warehouse full of Apple II's.

If you are going to train from scratch, then the best way to do it is to train on the system that's going to be used. Otherwise, you are just going to have to retrain once they get out of the classroom and into the real world.

Actually, I suggested the idea that they could be used as training platforms very early on in the "Captured Solly Junk" thread. Yet in another capacity. Marines could use them as target assault vehicles. In case of need of storming SLN ships, marines can train on actual SLN ships, to get accustomed to exact corridor layouts and the niggling little details of hatches that won't operate properly due to low maintenance, no maintenance or from *a shortage of the good olé WD-40 in the Sol sector.

*There was always a shortage of WD-40 in the Sol system because the government, the Mandarins and the SLN used it to grease and slide so much bullsheet by the unsuspecting public.

LOL

Sigs wrote:Maybe so... in fact you might be 100% correct how it would look but does it matter how it looks? If your citizens are in danger would you consider how an action looked or how to mitigate the danger?

If you are not completely stupid, yes. Consider the following points:
1. Unlike the Solarian League or Haven, the RF does not present a clear and present danger. It might become dangerous, but the same is true of any number of SL successor states with a critical mass of industry.
2. The danger the RF represents is more on a philosophical level than anything else.
3. Taking out the RF before it has done anything to harm the GA, just based on the assumption/accusation that because the Alignment is involved in it, it must be up to no good, creates an incentive for other successor states to start working on strong defences against the GA.
4. Furthermore, it will create a climate where the GA is seen not as a liberator from the stagnation of the League, but as a more unhinged, more oppressive version of it; this will make the security situation a lot more volatile than it has to be.

If the RF is meant to unite 100,200 or even 1,000 systems into one nation after the League's collapse what should the GA do once they discover this? Allow that many core systems to unite under an entity that was created by the MA and has caused death and destruction to anyone in their path? Allowing the RF to form a nation with a high concentration of core and shell worlds would be so counter productive especially when they don't know the end game.

The RF isn't that large (it includes eleven star nations right now). If it was a large bloc like you suggest, I would agree with you, but a small collection like what it actually is at present is not a threat yet.

Also, consider this: The core worlds, as a group, are very likely to quickly form alliances after the fall of the League. These are nations that have been allied to each other for centuries; there aren't going to be that many instances of huge rifts between two or more neighbouring systems.

Maldorian wrote:One question: "Is somewere written, that the support ships of the sollies fall into the hands of the GA?"

Could be, that they stayed at the hyper border and escape as things went wrong or that they left behind in a emty near starsystem.

And if they stayed at the main fleets is the question if they survived combat, but I don´t guess that even a solly Admiral is that stupid.

There's no direct mention, but Filareta's PoW and KIA numbers suggests the half a million Marines were left outside in hyperspace pending 11th Fleet's successful conquest of Manticore.

No mention was made of Crandall's fleet train. But few commanders would deliberately take freighters into a combat environment, even with the peak of Solly overconfidence behind them.

I think that using the SD's as training platforms are a complete waste of money and resources.

Anyone saying that the tech is essentially the same although the SD's have older ditto are mostly wrong.

The problem with using obsolete tech to train people is that when they get their hands on new tech they have to unlearn a lot which is difficult. For someone that has been retrained continuously with each incremental tech upgrade this isn't a problem, but there is no one in the GA that has that kind of experience with Solly tech.

A comparison would be like knowing how to service a first generation transistor radio compared to the latest generation digital one. The operating principles are the same but the implementation is completely different.

And as people has repeatedly said - Manticore has a lot of newer ships mothballed that can be used instead of the crappy Solly SD's, and the current tech is an incremental upgrade from what is in those ships which makes retraining much simpler.

The SD's are essentially scrap that needs to be recycled, deal with it.

After over a year away, this dead horse is still being beaten to death on a regular basis? Oh, well...some things never change.

KNick wrote:After over a year away, this dead horse is still being beaten to death on a regular basis? Oh, well...some things never change.

Been going on nearly a decade all told. Someone will probably be arguing about it 90 years from now.

cthia wrote:

jtg452 wrote:I don't see the logic of using them as training platforms.

That makes as much sense to me as training new auto mechanics on a fleet of 1973 Ford Pintos because you found a bone yard full of them or setting up a Computer Lit class using a warehouse full of Apple II's.

If you are going to train from scratch, then the best way to do it is to train on the system that's going to be used. Otherwise, you are just going to have to retrain once they get out of the classroom and into the real world.

Actually, I suggested the idea that they could be used as training platforms very early on in the "Captured Solly Junk" thread. Yet in another capacity. Marines could use them as target assault vehicles. In case of need of storming SLN ships, marines can train on actual SLN ships, to get accustomed to exact corridor layouts and the niggling little details of hatches that won't operate properly due to low maintenance, no maintenance or from *a shortage of the good olé WD-40 in the Sol sector.

*There was always a shortage of WD-40 in the Sol system because the government, the Mandarins and the SLN used it to grease and slide so much bullsheet by the unsuspecting public.

LOL

Oh, I get using them as floating shoot houses for the Marines to practice in. That's no different than the modern special operations teams that specialize in hostage rescue having derelict or mock ups of commercial air liners and buses to practice on. That's just good training procedure. You train in as close as you can get to the environment you are going to be working in if at all possible. That way your plans and walkthroughs are accurate as possible.

The thing is, you don't need 500 examples of 1 or 2 classes (Vega and Scientist class SD) for the Marines to use for practice. Maybe 1 or 2 from each class or per major variant of a class. Even if you send a couple of each to every major nation in the GA so everyone's Marines have new toys to play with, that means you still have 490 or so useless SD's alone.

The screen is going to be just as bad, if not worse, because there will be a lot more of them. A SD isn't going to be screened by just one of each of the lighter classes. It isn't going to be a 1:1:1:1,.... ratio.

jtg452 wrote:The screen is going to be just as bad, if not worse, because there will be a lot more of them. A SD isn't going to be screened by just one of each of the lighter classes. It isn't going to be a 1:1:1:1,.... ratio.

Less. Battle Fleet's screens are way understrength.

Crandall's TF had 71 waller to 77 screeners.
Filareta's fleet had 427 SD to 62.
Tsang's TF had 100 SD to 65.

munroburton wrote:

jtg452 wrote:The screen is going to be just as bad, if not worse, because there will be a lot more of them. A SD isn't going to be screened by just one of each of the lighter classes. It isn't going to be a 1:1:1:1,.... ratio.

Less. Battle Fleet's screens are way understrength.

Crandall's TF had 71 waller to 77 screeners.
Filareta's fleet had 427 SD to 62.
Tsang's TF had 100 SD to 65.

I will also add that the screen is much less likely to survive hits intact, if a tad less likely to be targeted (however Honorverse missiles tend to have a end priority of any ship in sight when they reach the end of their run).

These ships are also much more likely to be a usefull addition to a verge Navy willing to irk the SL. I would figure many Verge navies are using League handmedowns currently, and these would just be more from a less orthodox source.

TO ALL YOU LAZY PEOPLE WHO KEEP MAKING EXCUSES WHY THE SOLLY SD'S CAN'T/SHOULDN'T BE REFITTED....

Why were the Peep Wallers refitted by Grayson then instead of just being shoved into their sun?

Saying something can't be done, or that there's no point trying, only shows your own lack of intelligence.