Attacking and Defending Gorath Bay==Possible Spoilers==

http://www.davidweber.net/files/downloads/safeholdMapsCirca897ForGorathB.jpg

Based on this map in the download section, I wonder how the ICN plan to attack Gorath Bay? How does Dohlar plan to defend it?

As I see it, the RDN can't hope to concentrate on any of the steamers. There are two channels at least 10 miles in every section of Gorath Bay. I assume that the scale measure is in miles as Safehold still uses miles rather than KMs. If the RDN spreads out to cover all those channels, the steamers can punch out or evade the least dense RDN formation. That's if the ICN chooses to avoid action with the mobile RDN units.

The best hope the RDN has to engage the ICN en masse is to either concentrate their ships blocking both Sandbottom Pass and Lace Passages or to anchor along Queen Zhakleen Harbor under the shore guns. That's a frontage of 30 to 40 miles.

If the RDN chooses the mobile defense, half their fleet will defend Sandbottom Pass and the other half will defend Lace Passage. The screw Galleys will likely be stationed along the perimeter of Sandbottom Pass taking advanatage of the shoals. The RDN galleons will station along the center of the pass. The screw galleys will fight from the shoal should the ICN decide to skirt the galleons. The galleys will swoop in to engage if the steamers attack the RDN galleons directly.

The ships guarding Lace Passage will likely station along the Dangerous Ground shoal and encourage the ICN to run under the guns along the shore. If the ICN engages the shore batteries, the mobile units will attempt to sail in and engage the ICN more closely.

I suspect that Thirsk will view those dispositions with more favor than trying to defend the entire 30-40 mile long harbor. His ships will not have the range of the harbor guns and so will offer nothing to the initial duel between the shore batteries and the iron clads (which devastated Geyra) Thirsk knows are on their way. If Thirsk stations his ships towards the edge of the harbor guns range, the ICN will simply begin shooting those ships from beyond the shore guns' range. If he anchors them in tighter under the shore guns, they add nothing to the engagement. Their only hope is to either force the ICN to deplete its store of shells by offering themselves as targets or to hope that the harbor forts deplete the ironclad's shells sufficiently to give those galleons a chance.

I suspect Sarmouth will prefer to steam in and destroy the forts without destroying the galleons. That will take the starch out of the politicos but quick. If he sends his steamers through Lace Passage to take out the shore guns first, he can scoot around the galleons if they begin sailing to engage the ironclads. If the KH VIIs stop out of the shore guns' range guarding that passage, he can destroy those guns without risk to his ships.

The galleons will sail to engage the KH VIIs before the shore batteries are destroyed and they become sitting ducks. Once out of position, the KH VIIs scoot around the formation and through Lace Passage. If those galleons give chase, the remainder of the ICN fleet sails through without engaging. If the Sandbottom squadrons give chase, the ICN fleet sails in through Sandbottom Pass. If neither gives chase, the Haraalds destroy the forts in Queen Zhakleen Harbor and accepts Dohlar's surrender, or they return to the mouth of Gorath bay and finish off the rest of the RDN.

The speed and power of those ships should persuade any landlubber that shore fortifications have just become useless. All of Dohlar's ports have just become rubble and ash totally dependent on the charity of the ICN for their survival. I am sure Thirsk and Bishop Maik can use the KHVIIs display of absolute superiority to shepherd even the most recalcitrant Dohlaran aristoidiot to follow their course of wisdom.

I would love any thoughts on how far off my evaluations/prognostications are.

This is a very interesting map. As mentioned in another thread, it is hard to believe the scale is accurate. Or if it is the units are unknown. (By the scale, the city waterfront is about 34 units long and the main part of the city is about 16 units deep. I can't see that makes sense if the units are either miles or kilometres) That means we cannot tell how wide the channels are, which makes figuring out tactics in any depth pretty speculative.

In addition there are all sorts of interesting but unexplained markings in the map. Like you, I think, I am assuming the short brown lines near the coast denote batteries, in which case there are a lot of them. I cannot figure out what the dotted red lines enclosing various areas might be, but I would certainly like to know.

I suspect crank galleys are not going to look nearly so clever when they are trying to attack ships that can simply steam away from them faster than they can catch up, especially when trying to deal with 2 such ships working in concert, each firing at the galleys trying to attack the other one.

Randomiser wrote:In addition there are all sorts of interesting but unexplained markings in the map. Like you, I think, I am assuming the short brown lines near the coast denote batteries

I assumed those lines were cliffs and rough coastline.

Randomiser wrote:This is a very interesting map. As mentioned in another thread, it is hard to believe the scale is accurate. Or if it is the units are unknown. (By the scale, the city waterfront is about 34 units long and the main part of the city is about 16 units deep. I can't see that makes sense if the units are either miles or kilometres) That means we cannot tell how wide the channels are, which makes figuring out tactics in any depth pretty speculative.

If we were to assume that the scale is in tenths of a mile, rather than miles, would the numbers look more reasonable? So instead of a city 34 by 16 miles in size, we assume 3.4 by 1.6 miles? That seem a touch more rational in my opinion. Still pretty large, but not monstrously so. Assuming that a decimal point got dropped off a chart is a lot easier to believe than say a city the size of modern New York.

Larry

The scale is in miles.

Do all those brown areas represent shallows underwater, thus representing a danger of grounding for ships whose draw is too deep?

The thing that impresses me as I look at the map is how many places there are to emplace shore batteries for defense to make an attackers job very difficult, If Dohlar had access to Charisian style artillery, the job of getting in there could get really dicey. In fact with the artillery the Dohlarians do have, things could get interesting enough.

Don

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Correct.

Duckk clarified the scale issues. I suspect the red dotted lines represent where floating batteries are deployed. I do not envision mines, but even if they are deployed, I do not see them as too difficult to overcome.

The floating batteries may well slow down the Haraald's advance, but will not stop them. Even armored floating batteries will be sitting ducks for 10" rifles firing armor piercing steel shells filled with HE.

Randomiser wrote:This is a very interesting map. As mentioned in another thread, it is hard to believe the scale is accurate. Or if it is the units are unknown. (By the scale, the city waterfront is about 34 units long and the main part of the city is about 16 units deep. I can't see that makes sense if the units are either miles or kilometres) That means we cannot tell how wide the channels are, which makes figuring out tactics in any depth pretty speculative.

In addition there are all sorts of interesting but unexplained markings in the map. Like you, I think, I am assuming the short brown lines near the coast denote batteries, in which case there are a lot of them. I cannot figure out what the dotted red lines enclosing various areas might be, but I would certainly like to know.

I suspect crank galleys are not going to look nearly so clever when they are trying to attack ships that can simply steam away from them faster than they can catch up, especially when trying to deal with 2 such ships working in concert, each firing at the galleys trying to attack the other one.

Duckk wrote:The scale is in miles.

The Gorath's waterfront is 34 miles long and the main part of the city is 16 miles deep! Calling it roughly semicircular, that's 90-100 sq miles. Really?

Duckk wrote:The scale is in miles.

Wow. Liverpool was the port in the UK through which ca. 80% of England's shipping trade passed between about 1936 and 1956 (maybe longer), and during this time (IIRC) the docks and wharves extended for roughly 18 miles. What on Earth does Dohlar need 30+ miles of docks for? Especially considering that their ships are massively smaller!
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