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An offshoot of existing tech rolled into a killer punch

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An offshoot of existing tech rolled into a killer punch
Post by Treecatsrule   » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:04 am

Treecatsrule
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If Manticores tech is so much better then Sol's heres a idea RMN can use to to make one time strikes on Sol's major ship building yards. Using apollo pods and LAC's. Refit a LAC to be nothing but a targeting/spy ship(IE stealth drone carriers). Use the drones to get up to date targeting data and recon info. A capitol ship can translate in from target system 4 or 5 light days out drop off Recon LACs and send them in in a 10 to 20 day flight in, in turn they release Stealth drones to get final targeting data. At some point same capitol ship luanches suffiecent apollo pods where they burn thier 1st stage on gaining speed and getting on rough course for targeted shipyard, they then go into standby mode. When recon LAC's have gathered and fine tuned targeting and final manuvering info they transmit info to apollo pods for final manuvering
so missles can streak into system under ballistic courses. they can then launch when they get within 500,000 miles of shipyards.
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Re: An offshoot of existing tech rolled into a killer punch
Post by Star Knight   » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:32 am

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Yeah but why? Just use the waller. Go in, blow stuff up, leave. Repeat in the next system.

welcome to the forum
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Re: An offshoot of existing tech rolled into a killer punch
Post by The E   » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:37 am

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Treecatsrule wrote:*snip*


This is all true, but there's a slight problem: The same result can be achieved by having a battle squadron drop out of hyper at the edge of the hyper limit, roll pods for a bit, launch the salvo and hyper out without ever crossing the limit. The stations aren't going to dodge, and Apollo itself provides all the recon data needed for an infrastructure strike like that.
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Re: An offshoot of existing tech rolled into a killer punch
Post by munroburton   » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:47 am

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You don't need a capital ship or LACs to do recon. Both are quite poorly optimised, really - the SD is easier to detect than a DD and the LAC is easier to detect than recon drones.

Eighth Fleet's second war operations used recon destroyers quite effectively - even forcing the RHN to honour defensive deployments during the offensive hiatus after Solon. This approach was resoundingly successful against Havenite technology and operational expertise.

It clearly works even better against the Sollies too - nearly every engagement so far has shown RMN RDs operating within tens of thousands of kilometres of SLN warships with impunity.

There's no need to get fancy with the Solly yards any more than Admiral Griffith needed to get fancy at Grendelsbane. Simply showing up in force is enough.

Especially as an attack such as the OP envisioned would have an underhand taste to it - it'd provoke some Sollies as much as the Yawata Strike did Manticorans. It does not allow the civilian workers of those facilities any time to evacuate.

I can't believe Manticore would do that to anyone(other than the Alignment), not after experiencing it themselves so recently.
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Re: An offshoot of existing tech rolled into a killer punch
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:53 am

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Treecatsrule wrote:A capitol ship can translate in from target system 4 or 5 light days out drop off Recon LACs and send them in in a 10 to 20 day flight in, in turn they release Stealth drones to get final targeting data. At some point same capitol ship luanches suffiecent apollo pods where they burn thier 1st stage on gaining speed and getting on rough course for targeted shipyard, they then go into standby mode. When recon LAC's have gathered and fine tuned targeting and final manuvering info they transmit info to apollo pods for final manuvering
so missles can streak into system under ballistic courses. they can then launch when they get within 500,000 miles of shipyards.
I'd nitpick that even on a technical level you'd need to modify the missiles for that prolonged ballistic phase.

The missiles, after a 1st stage burn, are going to need to coast for about 14-15 days from 4 lightdays out to reach their terminal attack point. Normal MDMs don't carry physical partical shielding for prolonged ballistic flights - their sensors would be turned to trash by the 0.271c particle impacts over that fortnight. (Not a problem when their wedges are up because those also power active particle shields).
The bigger system defense MDMs Manticore is deploying do have some physical particle shields applied to protect their sensors, but those are probably designed around an hour or two of coasting - not a couple weeks.


This isn't an impossible problem, technologically its pretty straightforward. But you'd need to decide the tactic was worth making special purpose strategic bombardment missiles and send the ship with those rather than with normal Mk23 Apollo pods. (And I agree with the rest of the posters that there's currently no reason to bother)
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Re: An offshoot of existing tech rolled into a killer punch
Post by Theemile   » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:17 pm

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Another simple idea posted before was to use a LAC strike, and have the stealthed LACS use everything in the inventories (Missiles, Grasers, Point defense lasers, and Countermissiles) to rip up the yards.

Without wedges or sidewalls to protect them, the wedge of a CM or LAC missile will rip through an SD like white hot iron through butter. and PDCLs are effective against unarmored targets, like repair ships and slips at close range. and those monster BC spinal grasers with their new grav lenses - they will cut through that old SD hammerhead armor with ease.

A stealthed LAC strike would also for a timed communication to be sent to evacuate the facilities, but not give enough time to properly mount a defense.

But most importantly, there is an argument NOT to attack the reserves out of the blue now. As long as they exist, the SLN (and civilian management and public) will see it as a crutch - a backup, and will have difficulties allocating funds to build new ships, as they will need to explain to the public WHY the carefully and expensively built reserve is useless. And if they do attempt to activate parts of the reserve - wait until they are almost ready to deploy and resources have already been spent before you attack, for the most impact.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: An offshoot of existing tech rolled into a killer punch
Post by SharkHunter   » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:43 am

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The main reason that "early on" Manticore isn't going to launch a surprise strike on any Solarian yard is the Yawata Strike. Having been on the receiving end of that amoral action [you allow space-based facilities to be evac'd like Giscard did at Basilisk], they're not going to do the same thing.

That said, a small squadron of Sag-C's plus a set of Taylor class support ships and their LACS (introduced in the lastest book, will refrain from explaining as that book is still in eArc) would be well more than enough to take out Sol-1, even allowing the SLN time to evac the base. The question we usually ask is "why bother?" given that it's the one event that would just about guarantee starting a "new construction" building program in the SLN core worlds, the one thing that the GA does not want.
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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