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Hacking 2000 years from now...

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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:50 am

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All of the technical argumentation is interesting, but I should point out that Sir Horace Harkness is proof enough that hackers will still exist in 2000 years in the Honorverse.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by Annachie   » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:13 am

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Did I read that right? The secret programming to defeat hackers is proper bug testing?

I also noticed the weasel wording, "existing technology"

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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:41 am

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Annachie wrote:Did I read that right? The secret programming to defeat hackers is proper bug testing?

I also noticed the weasel wording, "existing technology"

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Which is a pipe dream at present when amongst the species of bugs are a two-legged variety that are called hackers and crackers. It is difficult to impossible to test what they know or will know -- *in the future.

Which leads to the ever present disclaimer of "existing technology."


****** *


Edit:
Incidentally, I mentioned on several occasions that I'm currently working on two unprecedented programs to facilitate my own efforts in my personal goal to assist in the application of logic applied to religion and the "fact" that "GOD Must EXIST." (PLEASE, DON'T GO THERE!) Referenced below and in the "God Exists" thread.
I am developing two unprecedented programs, as I've stated on the forums a number of times. Eons ago, before discovering Lisp, I needed an expressive language -- a higher level language. I needed a language that can act intelligently on a rule base and change that rule base on the fly, itself! Essentially, I needed a language that can create programs that write programs. That is what is fundamental to, and at the heart of, Lisp and sets it apart. I actually tried to write that ability into BASIC programs without knowing that within a certain language called LISP, what I wanted already existed. It is called a "macro" function. I am certain you are aware of macros. However, it is almost blasphemous to compare Lisp macros to macros in any other language. The name is all they share in common. Lisp treats programs and data exactly the same. It doesn't matter to Lisp. Along with its powerful recursive abilities, that enables some pretty amazing things impossible to achieve in any other language. Lisp programs can themselves be the data! In no other language can you create a program that itself creates programs as it runs. That is learning accomplished in a completely different realm. This is the power I needed. I needed the A.I. and expressive power of Lisp and didn't even realize it.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5679&hilit=artificial+intelligence&start=157

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5679&hilit=artificial+intelligence&start=52

I face the same stumbling blocks as this project, of Godel and the halting problem. So I'm very familiar with the landscape. (Why I purchased a Cray which is chugging along).

I suppose I should also mention that the halting problem is one reason Coq is being used -- to attempt to theoretically circumvent the halting problem. Personally, I think that's the Cat's Meow of why Coq may ultimately be used.

Wikipedia wrote:Coq provides a specification language called Gallina (that means hen in Spanish and Italian). Programs written in Gallina have the weak normalization property – they always terminate. This is one way to avoid the halting problem. This may be surprising, since infinite loops (non-termination) are common in other programming languages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coq

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by The E   » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:36 am

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Annachie wrote:Did I read that right? The secret programming to defeat hackers is proper bug testing?


To make a computer unhackable, you need to do the following:
1. Build a bunker under a suitably large mountain
2. Install the computer
3. Turn it off
4. Collapse all accessways to the bunker
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by cthia   » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:04 am

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The E wrote:
Annachie wrote:Did I read that right? The secret programming to defeat hackers is proper bug testing?


To make a computer unhackable, you need to do the following:
1. Build a bunker under a suitably large mountain
2. Install the computer
3. Turn it off
4. Collapse all accessways to the bunker

That wont work, E. Because of something my niece joked about with me when she was first learning computers...

Uncle, it seems the only way to prevent a computer from being hacked is to deliberately design it to be hacked, then bugs will get into that and prevent it from working.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by The E   » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:21 am

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cthia wrote:That wont work, E. Because of something my niece joked about with me when she was first learning computers...


Reread point 3 again. Also, I never mentioned anything about having a power supply in the bunker...
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by cthia   » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:28 am

cthia
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The E wrote:
cthia wrote:That wont work, E. Because of something my niece joked about with me when she was first learning computers...


Reread point 3 again. Also, I never mentioned anything about having a power supply in the bunker...

Won't work because you think it's foolproof.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by The E   » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:15 am

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cthia wrote:Won't work because you think it's foolproof.


Oh, it's not foolproof. It just makes getting at the PC such a hassle that anyone who wants to crack it has to go to extraordinary lengths in order to do so; Ultimately, there is no such thing is absolute security.

The thing about hackers is that they're always on the lookout for the cheapest, least impactful way to get at data others want to keep secure. If you can't beat the encryption, beat up the guy holding the key (or his family).

Image
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by Theemile   » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:45 am

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The E wrote:
cthia wrote:Won't work because you think it's foolproof.


Oh, it's not foolproof. It just makes getting at the PC such a hassle that anyone who wants to crack it has to go to extraordinary lengths in order to do so; Ultimately, there is no such thing is absolute security.

The thing about hackers is that they're always on the lookout for the cheapest, least impactful way to get at data others want to keep secure. If you can't beat the encryption, beat up the guy holding the key (or his family).

Image


One of the most notorious hackers from the 80's, Mitnick, was really a social hacker. He would find details about his target, then eventually placed a polite, but hurried phone call to get his password reset or a new account created. He never brute forced anything.

Spear Phishing, another attack used today, is something which is hard to stop; you get the user to run the code to open a vulnerability for you. Sometimes it's the carefully worded email which looks like it's from a credit card company or the IT department. Recently, people have been "distributing" flash drives in the parking lot of the target company. When people in the company pick them up, many assume they were dropped by a coworker - others just think "hey, free flashdrive", nomater their motives, they pop the drive in their PC and the script on the drive is launched automatically. oops.....

Users will always be the weakest link in computing.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Hacking 2000 years from now...
Post by noblehunter   » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:20 pm

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why do people write down their passwords on sticky notes where someone else can find them?
Just once, I want to see protagonists bust into someone's computer by finding sticky notes in a drawer instead of guessing the password because of the pictures on the desk.
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