Battletech

I was going to post what I already have, but can't find any way to post pics/charts on here, just copying stuff already on the web. anyone know different?

You need to post it somewhere then copy the link.
Duckk might know different.

Jump jets don't need to be equal to walking speed. 4/6/1 is perfectly acceptable for a ten ton mech.

As for A 100 ton Atlas with "modern" tech In urban settings, 2/3/6 Speed and jump jets, Endo steel and changing LRM packs which Ultra 2 cannons, no heat rapid fire and can't be countered, with long range lots of ammo in multiple placings. lots of medium or short ranged rear weapons and a big set of close hitting weapons, for final knock down. Light Auto 20 / MRM 40 pack. Mix ER Large with Ultra 2's for sniper shots, I never use PPC's and I do use the Inner sphere heavy weapons. I aim that mechs will lose heat sinks and need to keep firing. Again Machine guns almost never get used. Flamers don't do much, especially would rather top off a mech space with extra heat sinks, than a flamer, also makes flamers useless weapons.

Even considered using two engines, but you need to evolve your own rules, non XL engines... 2 x 250's (same size engines) offer a King Crab 5/8/5 movement and a great surprise. Engine hits might knock out only one engine etc... but takes up most critical spaces in the torso. AC 20's replaced with 2 or 3 Ultra AC 2's plus ER Large One ton of Ammo and rear Medium Pulse. Ultra AC 2's make the best machine guns. No heat lots of ammo long range. In pairs with an ER large they make one of the best longest range weapon systems. Plus a hit may only knock out one Ultra AC 2 not an AC 20.

3 ultra 2 plus ER Large can hit for 6/12 plus 8 = 20. Long Range and lots of Ammo. 300 XL 3/5/3 Two rear medium pulse and 2 sets/arms with Triple Ultra AC 2's 2 tons ammo. Each side Torso mounting X-Pulse Large or Binary Lasers. Central Torso SRM 4 pack with CASE, MAX Armour, Mount Anti Missile, etc... If there is room for a ER Large in the Arms doing so helps.

As for A 100 ton Atlas with "modern" tech In urban settings, 2/3/6 Speed and jump jets,

That's an illegal movement profile. Standard Jump Jets only allow you to jump a maximum equal to the walk MP. Improved Jump Jets increase that to to the run MP. Even with a Partial Wing on top of that, maximum jump for that Atlas would be 4 hexes on a "standard" planet.

MAD-4A wrote:I was going to post what I already have, but can't find any way to post pics/charts on here, just copying stuff already on the web. anyone know different?

We do have the IMG tag, which is similar to using the other formatting tags.

Duckk wrote:

As for A 100 ton Atlas with "modern" tech In urban settings, 2/3/6 Speed and jump jets,

...illegal movement profile. Standard Jump Jets only allow you to jump a maximum equal to the walk MP. Improved Jump Jets increase that to to the run MP. Even with a Partial Wing on top of that, maximum jump for that Atlas would be 4 hexes on a "standard" planet.

this is correct (Though I understand that was put in to BT because of JJ abuse in the original BattleDroids...100tn, 1/2/12 movement etc...)

Lord Skimper wrote:Jump jets don't need to be equal to walking speed. 4/6/1 is perfectly acceptable for a ten ton mech.

Well, no, it is perfectly legal, but I don't consider it acceptable yes, in this case it allows the Mech to jump back (forward) 1 hex and turn around, but at the cost of +3 heat and to-hit and you can only jump up 1 level. so there may be some (few) situations where it may come in handy but you could achieve they same move (on flat terrain) by walking 1 hex while turning 3 hex sides. As for urban, you can't even jump over a building with that, 1 hex over and 1 level up max, but yes the Jenner with 7/11/5 can make more use of its JJ but 2 less tubes (or 1 less laser it lacks the HS for anyway and you could have 7/11/7)
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Lord Skimper wrote:As for A 100 ton Atlas with "modern" tech In urban settings,... Endo steel and changing LRM packs which Ultra 2 cannons, no heat rapid fire and can't be countered, with long range lots of ammo in multiple placings...

yes and no punch and no IDF. The LRMs on the Atlas are not just to be it's LR weapons but also allow it to act as IDF fire support for other Mechs. With Advanced tech, it's even worse, with Swarms and Thunders, I played in a "capture-the-flag" type game where we (2 teams) had to search a hill for a hidden objective. I peppered the hill with Thunders then sent heavy units up to search (leg armor could take the bangs their lights had to avoid) found the objective in a peppered hex and ran it off (they had to pursue through the mine fields). Also, the ultra 2 is a pop-gun use the LB-2X instead, same effect but 1/2 the ammo consumption and +1 to-hit (+3 vs VTOL)
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Lord Skimper wrote: lots of medium or short ranged rear weapons and a big set of close hitting weapons, for final knock down.

no rear weapons (unless mini-specific)mount them in the arms (or flip arms) you can torso twist (R or L) and use that arm weapons for rear fire. Don't use your heavy weapons last, use them first as can-openers then the light weapons for crit-seeking.
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Lord Skimper wrote:MRM 40 pack. Mix ER Large with Ultra 2's for sniper shots...

Never use MRMs - the rules are messed up, +1 penalty to hit, why? they use the same low-tech "iron-sights" targeting the rest of the weapons use, they would just have a penalty to the #-that-hit roll, like the DF-Missiles in the Tactical Handbook. I sometimes like the ER-LL, when I cant afford a PPC.

Lord Skimper wrote:I never use PPC's.

Why? some of the best IS weapons in the game, long range, heavy hitting power and no ammo to go BOOM I like Mechs with PPCs and enough HS to fire (2 ER-s with 16 DHS is the best) I can stand out and pound someone into molten slag without worrying about ammo usage/explosions and if they get In close, keep pounding (though I usually have PLs to supplement in close - for the -2 bonus and multiple hits after your armors opened)
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Lord Skimper wrote: Again Machine guns almost never get used. Flamers don't do much, especially would rather top off a mech space with extra heat sinks, than a flamer, also makes flamers useless weapons.

Flmrs & MGs can be quite usefull in some designs. 3025 they are your primary anti-infantry weapons, also MGs gen NO heat which is their prime use, though with Adv Tech SPLs are way better (-2 to hit & no ammo) the Flmr is still useful in setting fires, distraction/cover and anti-vehicle/infantry (have that Firestarter jump over and aim at the woods instead of the infantry (-4 stationary target bonus) & if they survive they have to more out of cover or burn - even Elementals - (except the salamander of-course)).
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Lord Skimper wrote:Even considered using two engines, but you need to evolve your own rules, non XL engines... 2 x 250's (same size engines) offer a King Crab 5/8/5 movement and a great surprise. Engine hits might knock out only one engine etc...but takes up most critical spaces in the torso.

Had rules for this when I was in high school (before 2750 came out) I came up with them and my best friend agreed...
Engines must match (400pts - no 300+100 - that would require 2x200s)
Wgt = EnWgtx2+1 (for links - for 2x200s = 8.5x2+1=18tn)
Crits = 1 crit in CT + 3 crits in each side (upper 3 CT and 3 RT are 1 engine and lower 3 CT and 3 LT are the other) if the CT crit is knocked out (or 1 EN takes 3 crits) then 1/2 power reduce walk to 1/2 (round down) and adjust Run and Jump to suit (note: this may make some JJs damage sinks)
if 1 EN takes 3 crits (side torso lost for example - it is shut down and stops producing heat as well).
This also pre-dates Stackpole rules as-well.
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Lord Skimper wrote: Ultra AC 2's make the best machine guns. No heat...

1 heat per round, 3x2=6 that's 60% of a PPC, 3 LB-2X would be only 3 heat and no chance of jam.

Lord Skimper wrote:In pairs with an ER large they make one of the best longest range weapon systems.

2 LB-2X & an ER-PPC would be better, but 2 ER-PPCs can really lay down the hurt!
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Lord Skimper wrote:AC 20's replaced with 2 or 3 Ultra AC 2's plus ER Large.

If your worried about heat then, in this case, 2XGR will really open some tuna! replace the AC-20s and LRM with 2-GR and some MPL for close quarters.
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Lord Skimper wrote:3 ultra (1) plus ER Large can hit for 6/12 plus 8 = 20.

well not really, if you consider probabilities. Yes, this is 20pt Max, but if you add in the 2nd round confirm for the ultras them (8+ = 41.66%) that makes each Ultra effectively 2.833pts per hit so (assuming 100%base hits) that's (2.833x3)+(8)=16.5 per full round of hits (and that requires 4 successful to-hit-rolls) where 2xER-PPCs only require 2 successful rolls to lay on 20pts in 2x10pt concentrated slams (instead of 1 8pt hit and 4 2pt dinks scattered all over the place) Also, with only 1tn of ammo they will have 15rds per gun so only 7 full salvoes before you run dry (and a 62.5% chance of at-least 1 jam before you empty your tubs). this also takes (7X3)+1+5 tons that's 27 tons, where 2XER-PPCs are (7X2)+6(for DHS) (10free HS+5=15+1(for run)=16)x2=32 good for 2x15PPC+run that's 20tn, leaves 7tons fror 3 MPL+1SPL for close quarters + heat for 1 ER-PPC even at close range. Oh, and my big hits have a range of 23 where your 8pt is only 19, though your 2pt plinks have a 2 hex range advantage over me, my 2 can-openers have a 4 hex advantage over your 8pter and no ammo limit, so there is the possibility that if I have >= mobility I can move into 20-23 hexes and pound away indefinitely while you spend a few turns peppering my armor (what it's there for) and then run dry. I'd probably be willing to take that Atlas (with legal movement modifications) on with a standard GRF-3M/6S or 6CS (without a C3 mate)
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Lord Skimper wrote:3 ultra 2 plus ER Large can hit for 6/12 plus 8 = 20. Long Range and lots of Ammo. 300 XL 3/5/3 Two rear medium pulse and 2 sets/arms with Triple Ultra AC 2's 2 tons ammo. Each side Torso mounting X-Pulse Large or Binary Lasers. Central Torso SRM 4 pack with CASE, MAX Armour, Mount Anti Missile, etc... If there is room for a ER Large in the Arms doing so helps.

I wouldn't recommend the XL, it's taking up more of your crits spaces and only giving 9.5tons while making the Mech vulnerable. 1 side torso down and your done. The CASE is wasted space, as an ammo-hit will take out the EN anyway. I'll have to check with HMP to see but I can do that tonight and get back to you.
As for LL location, there are 2 rules of thought on this (well 2 that work) the Clans seem to think that they should all go in the arms (they always leave most of the open pod space in the arms rather than the torsos) I presume this is due to clan sudo-fighting where the increased arcs of fire are desired. this also makes all of your weapons vulnerable (which doesn't make sense for them as they wont run in and start kicking). take out their arms and then they just surrender (no choice). For a proper design you can either put your LR weapons in the arm and SR in the torsos of vice-verse. for the second, you have your big LR guns protected in the torsos and just aim the Mech in the targets direction, plenty of arc for the LR guns, when you get in close, you have your close in weapons in the arms for max arc of fire (shooting backwards etc...) The problem here is if you lose your arms in the LR fight then when you get in close you have no SR weapons left to fight with. The opposite design addresses this, with LR weapons in the arms and SR protected in the torsos then you can duel at LR until your arms come off then close with your SR weapons still intact, (also assuming you don't lose your arms you can start punching, though I prefer to kick anyway) the problem with this is it limits your SR weapons arcs and you may want to add those rear weapons back in.

Yeah, AC2s are among the least efficient weapons in the game. There are exactly 2 cases why you'd want to mount them, and none of them are what Skimper suggested:

1. 3039 and earlier play, where you're a fast mover and can exploit the fact that it is the longest range weapon for the tech level, and armor levels are generally lower.

2. You need a dedicated anti-aerospace or anti-VTOL weapon, so you load up on flak ammo for the regular AC2 or cluster rounds for the LBX AC2.

Loading AC2s onto an assault mech is literally the worst thing you can do. Damage per ton and damage per turn is pathetic, and when assault mechs clash, damage is king. And in later eras, a slew of specialty armors like Reactive, Ferro Lamellor, and Ballistic Reinforced can reduce AC2 damage by 50%. A bunch of 1 point papercuts per turn is not what any assault mech wants to do. Then there's also the fact that assault mechs can't control the range, so getting bullrushed by a faster mech to get inside the AC2s minimum range is a very real threat.

Outside of the computer versions I'm running on the older tech.

I have to say that the XL engine has been a favourite of mine. But I suppose an Atlas with a 200 standard engine might be better with MASC if you need to cross an open area. Not so good in open terrain.

I like the Ultra 2 or the Rotary 2 (6 shot) for its range low heat and and high ammo. Rotary 2 replaces 3 ultra 2's with one gun, so much better. Jamming might be an issue but that is why you have back up weapons.

I'm torn between a pair of Medium X-Pulse or a single Large ER or X Pulse.

Sometimes I just go cheap, 20 or 15 ton mech. 2-3 tons armour, 3 gyro's, 1.5-2 chassis, 5 Large laser, 3.5 105 - 5 140 engine, 2 (4x) jump jets on 20 ton mech, none on 15, in place of jump jets one might add 1 ton of Armour and a medium laser. Standard everything. Might go ER but sometimes all you have is the old Standard lasers available.

Cheap, effective and fast.

15-20 tons
7/13/0-4 movement
Large Laser
(medium laser)
2-3-4 tons armour

Sometimes fancy is just that.

Lord Skimper wrote:I have to say that the XL engine has been a favourite of mine. But I suppose an Atlas with a 200 standard engine might be better with MASC if you need to cross an open area. Not so good in open terrain.

You're paying 5 tons and 5 crits to boost your run MP by 1. That's a criminal use of crit slots, especially for Inner Sphere assault mechs which are always crit starved.

I like the Ultra 2 or the Rotary 2 (6 shot) for its range low heat and and high ammo. Rotary 2 replaces 3 ultra 2's with one gun, so much better. Jamming might be an issue but that is why you have back up weapons.

Who the heck mounts 3 UAC2s? That's 21 tons and 9 crit slots of plinking weapons, irrespective of the ammo. I could spend just 12 tons and 5 crits for the Light Gauss Rifle (again, not including ammo) for the same range bands, less heat, and effectively the same damage (since UACs have to roll 8+ to hit with the second burst). Plus I can efficiently tie that LGR to a Targeting Computer for more accurate fire, whereas 3x UAC2s would be horrible with TarComps.

I'm torn between a pair of Medium X-Pulse or a single Large ER or X Pulse.

Apples and oranges. Medium X-Pulses are good (albeit hot) for brawling. The ER Large Laser is a sniping weapon, and the Large X-Pulse is for midrange combat.

Sometimes I just go cheap, 20 or 15 ton mech. 2-3 tons armour, 3 gyro's, 1.5-2 chassis, 5 Large laser, 3.5 105 - 5 140 engine, 2 (4x) jump jets on 20 ton mech, none on 15, in place of jump jets one might add 1 ton of Armour and a medium laser. Standard everything. Might go ER but sometimes all you have is the old Standard lasers available.

Cheap, effective and fast.

15-20 tons
7/13/0-4 movement
Large Laser
(medium laser)
2-3-4 tons armour

Sometimes fancy is just that.

There are several mech building tools available. I use Solaris Skunk Werks and MegaMekLab.

You have long range weapons for long range and short for short, medium fills the gap and armoured fists, axes, clubs and or dead mech arms and legs for the bull-rushed Assault mech.


There is something to say for the high heat long range where you can shut down to control extreme heat and remove yourself from sensors but while you are shut down I'm peeling the paint off your cockpit.

Having a lower hit option, multiple tries is better than one single try. 2-6 rolls for a hit vs 1 If you hit 25% of the time on average you can do the same damage with six hits coming in but many times you miss 8 times in a row, then hit for 4. 8 long then medium then short range misses with an ER PPC, means you are over heated doing no damage. In return hitting for 6*4 24 until your other weapons can pick up the fire and you're not overheating by the time the range closes your long range weapons stop firing and your medium and short take over. As someone retreats your Double heat sinks are critically out of action you overheat with every other shot or you pick on them until your ammo runs out with your AC2's.

I don't like LRM or SRM missiles as anti missile systems just eat them away to nothing. With Anti missile system SRM are useless. With laser Anti missile you best just not have them.

MDM in large number can overwhelm such things.

Nothing worse than firing six salvos of LRM 20 only to have everything intercepted. Much better to pepper the enemy at long range with multiple AC2's. Add in X pulse large, X pulse medium, As they continue to close you devastate them with a MDM salvo and suddenly they flee for range. Bull rushing a MDM 40 is a terrible idea.

Lord Skimper wrote:You have long range weapons for long range and short for short, medium fills the gap and armoured fists, axes, clubs and or dead mech arms and legs for the bull-rushed Assault mech.

If you're burning 21+ tons on a 100 ton assault mech solely on UAC2s, then your close range armament isn't going to be a substantial enough deterrent. And if you're moving only 2/3, you're not going to be generating a target movement modifier, making it a lot easier to hit you.

There is something to say for the high heat long range where you can shut down to control extreme heat and remove yourself from sensors but while you are shut down I'm peeling the paint off your cockpit.

I have no idea why you think energy weapons will make you immediately shutdown. Many canon mechs built for long range energy engagements usually have enough heat sinks to engage at range with no heat issues.

Having a lower hit option, multiple tries is better than one single try. 2-6 rolls for a hit vs 1 If you hit 25% of the time on average you can do the same damage with six hits coming in but many times you miss 8 times in a row, then hit for 4. 8 long then medium then short range misses with an ER PPC, means you are over heated doing no damage. In return hitting for 6*4 24 until your other weapons can pick up the fire and you're not overheating by the time the range closes your long range weapons stop firing and your medium and short take over. As someone retreats your Double heat sinks are critically out of action you overheat with every other shot or you pick on them until your ammo runs out with your AC2's.

Literally decades of metanalysis by BT players has come to a definite conclusion: Death by papercut doesn't work in most situations. Unless you really cheese the mechanics by using a couple dozen of Machine Guns or ER Micro Lasers (for generating head hits and/or through armor criticals), it is always better to get concentrated damage over scattered damage. 20 damage from a AC20 is going to cripple a light or medium mech, if not destroy it outright; and even a heavy and assault mech is going to be stripped of armor. 20 damage scattered all over the mech's body is an irritation. The only time you'd want scattered damage is after the armor has been breached in a location, then something like a LBX autocannon or a brace of SRMs would give you a great chance of scoring critical hits.

I don't like LRM or SRM missiles as anti missile systems just eat them away to nothing. With Anti missile system SRM are useless. With laser Anti missile you best just not have them.

The rules state that only the unit targeted by the missiles may engage with AMS. Second, one AMS can only engage a one missile salvo per turn. So unless you are playing under house rules, AMS does very little to affect a missile bombardment.

Nothing worse than firing six salvos of LRM 20 only to have everything intercepted. Much better to pepper the enemy at long range with multiple AC2's. Add in X pulse large, X pulse medium, As they continue to close you devastate them with a MDM salvo and suddenly they flee for range. Bull rushing a MDM 40 is a terrible idea.

I tried to make your ubermech in SSW. The mech is stupidly overheat because the tiny engine means it doesn't have the crit space to mount enough heat sinks. And you think my mechs have heat issues?