ATST Snippet #6 (I think)

lyonheart wrote:Hi PeterZ,
The gyrocompass was only invented in 1904, and was seen as a great improvement in the ship knowing where and what it was doing, a considerable improvement on the preceding guesswork, but it was decades further before any kind of central control connection between such sensors and the gun turrets.

The Royal Navy started introducing "Director" Fire Control systems in 1907 with all "capital ships" so equipped by 1913

NOT Decades, only a few years

Annachie wrote:Is there any history on how bullet proof sych balloons were in RL? Thistle silk balloons will presumably be tougher than anything really produced at this tech level, but I'm still curious.

Dude, if your observation balloon is taking bullet fire, it's long past time for it to discontinue observations and move to a new location.

evilauthor wrote:

Annachie wrote:Is there any history on how bullet proof sych balloons were in RL? Thistle silk balloons will presumably be tougher than anything really produced at this tech level, but I'm still curious.

SNIP

I haven't kept up with wicker varnishes and/or stains.I imagine we would have heard something if anyone had come up with anything that would stop, or even impede slightly, small, fast-moving metal objects. So even if the balloons've gotten tougher, the basket in which the flight crew is presumably having bladder control problems probably hasn't.

EdThomas wrote:I haven't kept up with wicker varnishes and/or stains.I imagine we would have heard something if anyone had come up with anything that would stop, or even impede slightly, small, fast-moving metal objects. So even if the balloons've gotten tougher, the basket in which the flight crew is presumably having bladder control problems probably hasn't.

The point is that with cannons having ranges starting to measure in MILES now, if your observation balloons are taking bullet fire, it's already too damn close to the front, and you should have pulled it and the artillery park it's attached to back to a safer location before things got that bad, because you're already being overrun.

I am unaware of textev, Lyonheart. I was referring to a schematic for a pneumatic gyro I ran across the last time we discussed fire control.

I believe they need to develop the gyroscope and true fire control systems. Developing a vertical stable element with a crude timing system to remove some aiming variables for the longer shots a balloon system will make possible is a good place to start.

lyonheart wrote:Hi PeterZ,
First, I'm curious about the detailed textev for the gyroscope reference, because its a long way after the gyroscope that the gyrocompass was invented that began the development of real naval fire control systems which took decades

n7axw wrote:Thirsk has been under pressure for so long from the threat hanging over his family that having that threat removed and his family safe is bound to be a disorienting experience. It is going to take some time for him to come to grips with it.

Telling Maik all about it at this point probably would be unwise from the standpoint of foreclosing options he might otherwise have in dealing with the inquistion. Maik, after all, has his superiors to report to. Even if Maik is completely trustworty, Thirsk may well not want to put Maik in the position of knowing something he is holding back from Zion.

Don

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But now we see in Snippet 7 that Thirsk has grabbed the slash lizard by the throat and is really going to act. I don't see any hesitation here. The question is HOW he will act - no longer whether or not he will act decisively.

evilauthor wrote:

EdThomas wrote:I haven't kept up with wicker varnishes and/or stains.I imagine we would have heard something if anyone had come up with anything that would stop, or even impede slightly, small, fast-moving metal objects. So even if the balloons've gotten tougher, the basket in which the flight crew is presumably having bladder control problems probably hasn't.

The point is that with cannons having ranges starting to measure in MILES now, if your observation balloons are taking bullet fire, it's already too damn close to the front, and you should have pulled it and the artillery park it's attached to back to a safer location before things got that bad, because you're already being overrun.

Couldn't agree more, Evilauthor.

I mentioned these calculations elsewhere in the forum, but if the balloon is even at 500 feet (and assuming "flat" ground), the visual horizon is 27.4 MILES away. So you could easily put your balloons 5 miles behind the front (and safely out of range of enemy fire), then signal to the ground, and they could relay the spotting corrections either via semaphore or heliograph to the artillery park or to the mortar positions. Sort of a forward observer that's actually behind you, I guess.

You'd still need SOME security around the balloon tethering position to prevent a sapper from sneaking in and firing a couple of rounds into the balloon and setting it alight.

WeberFan wrote:

n7axw wrote:Thirsk has been under pressure for so long from the threat hanging over his family that having that threat removed and his family safe is bound to be a disorienting experience. It is going to take some time for him to come to grips with it.

Telling Maik all about it at this point probably would be unwise from the standpoint of foreclosing options he might otherwise have in dealing with the inquistion. Maik, after all, has his superiors to report to. Even if Maik is completely trustworty, Thirsk may well not want to put Maik in the position of knowing something he is holding back from Zion.

Don

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But now we see in Snippet 7 that Thirsk has grabbed the slash lizard by the throat and is really going to act. I don't see any hesitation here. The question is HOW he will act - no longer whether or not he will act decisively.

Your last sentence nails it. We are still left hanging in that we still don't know what Thirsk is going to tell Maik or what he is going to do.

The real nailbiter here is wht Maik is going to do. My own suspicion is that in his own mind Maik has been caught between his vows as a Schulerite and his basic sense of right and wrong for a long time. What Thirsk says to him could well force him to decision and commitment.

Don

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evilauthor wrote:

EdThomas wrote:I haven't kept up with wicker varnishes and/or stains.I imagine we would have heard something if anyone had come up with anything that would stop, or even impede slightly, small, fast-moving metal objects. So even if the balloons've gotten tougher, the basket in which the flight crew is presumably having bladder control problems probably hasn't.

The point is that with cannons having ranges starting to measure in MILES now, if your observation balloons are taking bullet fire, it's already too damn close to the front, and you should have pulled it and the artillery park it's attached to back to a safer location before things got that bad, because you're already being overrun.

The difficulty is going to be is that even with altitude, the further you are from the target, the less precise your targeting instructions can be, especially in terms of being able to see long and short.

But I do agree with your post. If you are close enough to be endangered by rifle fire, you are too close.

Don

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n7axw wrote:The difficulty is going to be is that even with altitude, the further you are from the target, the less precise your targeting instructions can be, especially in terms of being able to see long and short.

But I do agree with your post. If you are close enough to be endangered by rifle fire, you are too close.

Don

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We artillerists have a solution for that. It's called "observing the fall of the shot".

One cannon fires one shot. Observer reports "Off target! Right 5!"

Cannon fires again after making correction. "Off target! Left 3!"

Cannon fires again. "On target! Fire for effect!" All cannons fire having made the same corrections as the first cannon.

You don't NEED a balloonist to do that, but a balloon is a helluva lot safer than some forward observer sitting next to an enemy position.