why the honorverse would be full of dead planets

Jonathan_S wrote:A missile is harder to spot from those collisions because it's much smaller surface area means there are just far less collisions to spot, so you get vastly less signals with which to derive its course. Also because it can come in much closer to the speed of light you get less reaction time if you do see the particle emissions from those fewer collisions.

However it's a lot easier to fry a critical missile component from the effects of this collision or to impart enough change of vector (which doesn't have to be much very at all) to cause it to be a long way from where it it expecting to be.

GregD wrote:..snip..
I'm sorry, but no rational person hearing Audrey O’Hanrahan's "report" is going to buy that the Manties are responsible. "All I can tell you is that at the moment the explosions ripped through the very heart of this planet, Manticoran and Havenite warships were in orbit around it and they are apparently totally unable to offer any explanation at all for how those attacks could have been carried out without any of their sensors observing a single thing." Unless someone else's sensors saw something, it's because teh Manties and Havenites had nothing to do with it, it was all on planet.

Let me just put some words here:
Chemtrails, Flat Earth, Fake moon landing, Elvis lives, Illuminati rules the world, The Holocaust didn't happen, US Black Op Agencies where behind 9/11.

All those are conspiracy theories that anyone with a modicum of intelligence and critical thinking dismiss out of hand, and still they thrive. Guess what O’Hanrahan's report are going to do??

It doesn't matter what kind or how much evidence Manticore and Haven present to prove that they weren't behind the bombings, you are going to have a portion of the Leagues population still believing that they did it which is going to muck things up.

And the fact that Haven and Manticore intel agents were in fact deeply involved with the Green Valley terrorists and actually provided them the weapon they used does tend to lend a bit of "truthiness" to the claim that they were involved in the rest.

Somtaaw wrote:We've got two schools of thoughts regarding Solarian incompetence I'm noting.

We've got the "they're still capable of breathing without life support, so they CAN'T possible be THIS stupid?!?" school.

and we've got the "they've screwed up or avoided admitting things have happened for decades, there isn't anything they cant screw up" school.

RFC sorta wrote himself into a corner regarding Solarian stupidity, because they've managed not to disintegrate the League decades, if not centuries ago due to being complete and utter bunglers. But at the same time, every single bit we've seen, indicates Solarians are so incredibly incompetent they personify that stupid meme picture

SNIP


Did Murphy go breeding throughout the Solarian League, and everyone that populates it is a direct descendant, that they can manage "if it can be screwed up, it will be screwed up" so thoroughly?

I'd suggest that there is actually a third view - namely that the Solarians are actually pretty competent with those things that they are used to do and need to do for the Core to continue in its merry & prosperous way.

However they have grown very complacent about meeting new challenges and situations from 'lazy' centuries of domination, and it is that mental habit that has caused them to fail so woefully in the totally new situation that has developed.

Star Knight wrote:

n7axw wrote:The Sollies are not the most efficient folk in the galaxy, to be sure. But they are not really using stupidity as a requiement to join the club.

Amongst any group of people there will be those who are both competent and trying to do their jobs, frequently on the lower levels such as the noncoms and the lower officer corps.

I suspect that they would react, perhaps not as quickly as Manticore or Haven. But they would react in time to deal with the issue.

ok sure, let see

Low level watchkeeper on gravitic station 1 rings up his boss. He’s just detected a hyperfootprint 1 lightmonth out due north of the solar system. Its third watch and the middle of the night.

‘Sir, you need to call system patrol, they have to send somebody out there check out this contact’

‘Are you kidding me? Do you know what time it is? I’m not calling anyone at this hour and for sure I wont ask system patrol to send out boats to the middle of nowhere. Note the contact in the log, we talk about your call tomorrow when I come in.’

‘Yes Sir. Sorry Sir.’

‘So low level watchkeeper, what happened to your hyperfootprint last night?’

‘Uh Sir, he hypered out again. But it was really strange I’m telling you. He actually accelerated to .7c before he decelerated and jumped. I haven’t heard from him since but I really think we need someone to do something about this. Maybe you could ask transstellar traffic control if one of the freighters which came in last night had engine troubles?’

‘Good heavens man, you are really pushing it. For the last time, the answer is no. Stop this crap.’

‘Sorry Sir, I’m just…’

‘Yeah I get it, you are young and think you know it all. Let me tell you something. The guy before you was the same. He actually had the nerve to call up system patrol all by himself one night to chase after some sensor ghost. Was convinced a pirate was lurking out there or something. Cause quite a stirrup.
I think at this time he's probably done drycleaning the gravitic arrays of the first mothballed SD over at Hyperion.
I trust you don’t want to join him?’

…

noblehunter wrote:Wouldn't all this sand be relatively warm? And getting hotter? One assumes Earth will still be keeping an eye out for NEOs, which would probably be sensitive enough to see something hot from at least a few light hours out. And wedges make space sweeping way easier than a lot of other from of propulsion

I dont think there are much NEOs left after two millennia of space development.

noblehunter wrote:Traffic control is probably not in the hands of the Federal SL government. It's still be a body that would need to act quickly in case of compensator failure or gross navigation error. While likely not as quick off the mark as their Manticoran counterparts, they have to be ready to act in situations where they don't have time to sit around for a few hours before making a decision.

Sure they have boats for that kind of stuff in orbit around various planets. Just like those guys who tried to protect Sphinx during OysterBay.

But they are not tied into gravitic array command or whatever. There is really no need for it, nobody in the inner solar system will approach planets with near c velocities.

I didn't nominate the Sollies for the Golden Globe Efficiency Award. I merely said that they are probably competent enough to handle the specified situation. My musing seems to be backed by RFC here who seems to be suggesting that protecting the planet from this sort of strike would be covered by a standard protocol, which, after all, only makes sense.

Don

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Somtaaw wrote:We've got two schools of thoughts regarding Solarian incompetence I'm noting.

We've got the "they're still capable of breathing without life support, so they CAN'T possible be THIS stupid?!?" school.

and we've got the "they've screwed up or avoided admitting things have happened for decades, there isn't anything they cant screw up" school.

My opinion has always been that large parts of the Solarian League are generally incompetent because it doesn't matter to anyone if they are. But that doesn't mean that the Sol System government (or any other League member system government) is incompetent.

Hi Joat42,

Excellent point!

While I suspect RFC had to write SoV this way and end it as he did, besides wanting to, I think the main question is how long has he wanted to, or known he was going to end it this way?

Those who're afraid of the SEM and the GA, are going to eat this up because it fits their galaxy view, which may not be very rational, but then humanity is rarely logical, fair and or rational at the same time, with political campaigns as the first proof.

Given the sheer variety of warheads and empty targets, it repeatedly begs the question of why?

Granted this is the justification for the RF; ie "the Sollies are horrible, but so is the GA, but we're different, we're really the good guys, watch us do good things like..."

OTOH, I can envision Victor Cachet going on HD that's broadcast around Mesa and throughout the system to explain the Malign and their evacuation using the ballroom as cover, and point out all the discrepancies in the claims and targets, and the holes in the assumptions, especially when the GA request the sensor imagery of Mesa from the ships and satellites in orbit that indicate there were people in these various places that no one knew about, so who were they?

Unless all the satellite sensor imagery is routinely destroyed by internal worms or false masks are substituted, there are going to be glaring errors, but even the Malign can't control all the sensor imagery from visiting star ships, so among other things:

I expect the GA was already sending marines to the space station, so why nuke it? etc, etc.

Such as why nuke a supposedly empty island with a 2 megaton nuke?

Especially one that was deeply buried under a mansion that wasn't supposed to be there, so how can the ballroom claim it was a justified terror target?

Did the ballroom claim credit for the 1 kiloton 'peewee' nuking of an air car?

Why? Why not? Who was in it that was so important? Where'd the 'peewee' come from?

I expect the GA to offer rewards for sensor data from ships that'd just left Mesa before they arrived, which might make a couple of small ships known to readers even more important than before.

While this will quickly be bogged down in arguments about who's data isn't faked etc, eventually enough is going to be collected and analysed to prove lots of people that weren't known to the Mesan public or their nominal government were in the places that can be checked, provoking questions the Malign doesn't want asked, let alone answered.

Once those left behind begin to realise it was the Malign, I believe there will be millions if not billions of Mesans who also have more than a bone to pick with it, and I wouldn't be surprised that when Honor does visit Darius, there will be a new Mesa TF there along side her when they destroy it.

In the mean time, the SL won't last long enough

Certainly interesting times, indeed.

I hope RFC gets better very soon.

L


[quote="Joat42"][quote="GregD"]..snip..
I'm sorry, but no rational person hearing Audrey O’Hanrahan's "report" is going to buy that the Manties are responsible. "All I can tell you is that at the moment the explosions ripped through the very heart of this planet, Manticoran and Havenite warships were in orbit around it and they are apparently totally unable to offer any explanation at all for how those attacks could have been carried out without any of their sensors observing a single thing." Unless someone else's sensors saw something, it's because teh Manties and Havenites had nothing to do with it, it was all on planet.[/quote]
Let me just put some words here:
Chemtrails, Flat Earth, Fake moon landing, Elvis lives, Illuminati rules the world, The Holocaust didn't happen, US Black Op Agencies where behind 9/11.

All those are conspiracy theories that anyone with a modicum of intelligence and critical thinking dismiss out of hand, and still they thrive. Guess what O’Hanrahan's report are going to do??

It doesn't matter what kind or how much evidence Manticore and Haven present to prove that they weren't behind the bombings, you are going to have a portion of the Leagues population still believing that they did it which is going to muck things up.[/quote]

Hi guys,

Quite right, Drothgery;

Evidently the local governments and bureaucrats do manage to keep out vest pocket or 'peewee' nukes, tailored diseases, and a host of all the things that would/could ruin such a civilization, so the local security are competent about obvious critical threats, which includes using freighters to attack planets and their vital infrastructure.

I suspect its because they're motivated, it being their home system; but critics of the SL will then point out that since the SL isn't responsible for local peacetime security, having them take credit for it not happening is unjustified but typical of Sollies.

Who knows, the local SDF's even with just LAC's [2/3 of SL] may spend most of their time looking for such threats.

If the SL were as incompetent as some here claim, it wouldn't have lasted 700 plus years, indeed that very long lifetime indicates it's above average competence.

But sooner or later, all good things do come to an end.

Which is happening now.

Very interesting times.

L

drothgery wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:We've got two schools of thoughts regarding Solarian incompetence I'm noting.

We've got the "they're still capable of breathing without life support, so they CAN'T possible be THIS stupid?!?" school.

and we've got the "they've screwed up or avoided admitting things have happened for decades, there isn't anything they cant screw up" school.

My opinion has always been that large parts of the Solarian League are generally incompetent because it doesn't matter to anyone if they are. But that doesn't mean that the Sol System government (or any other League member system government) is incompetent.

Thinking about it.

Sand would burn up in atmosphere wouldn't it?

But it would make a mess of orbital infrastructure, well unshielded.

Sounds like a safish way to destroy orbitals, assuming the launching/detection roblems could be handled.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Annachie wrote:Thinking about it.

Sand would burn up in atmosphere wouldn't it?

The kinetic energy still has to go somewhere. I'm not sure what the exact heating effect would be, but it would be pretty massive.