"Obsolete SDs" Waste not...

i personnaly think that manticore should give away those SD at scrap price to verge systems they support.

1. solarian sd are more powerfull then solarian BC,

2. these system need a defense against solarian BC, either a manticorian guard or those useless SD.

3. the large crews would be an advantage to these systems as they would need to train naval personal, crewing one of those moron SD needs 6000+ personal, nice training.

4. spares. enough torps in the supply train captured spares too, plus give them a 2. SD as spare parts. that would help their nacent space industrie too

5. it costs nothing and is no danger to the GA

example meyers, give them 8 SD + those light units captured at meyers and when the FF returns with 3 squadrons of Battlecruisers it faces 4 SD of the Royal Meyers Navy+ light units and 100 Manti LAC, they will turn tail

p.s. manticore is going to capture more of those catharapht dual drive missiles, which while useless agaist the GA do well against FF Battlecruisers

finaly while wanting to help those verge systems with military support, no one in the GA actually wants to give current alliance hardware out of hand, and the solarian leagues hardware is the best that they would give away

svenhauke wrote:1. solarian sd are more powerfull then solarian BC,

A possibly flawed assumption. SDs are Battle Fleet ships and a design frozen a couple of centuries ago; in any Haven SEctor navy they'd be considered DNs instead of SDs.

SLN BCs are primarily the province of Frontier Fleet and their newest is a design that is only decades old that compares favorably with first-war Haven Sector BCs.

It wouldn't surprise me if Frontier Fleet BCs didn't compare favorably with Battle Fleet Scientist-class SDs. Singleton SDs definitely wouldn't compare favorably with a division or squadron of BCs -- and probably wouldn't survive much longer than a singleton, second-hand BC or two.

Theemile wrote:

saber964 wrote:

It was a Spruance class destroyer so a crew of 325-350.

Also forgot during Desert Shield/Storm we had 25mm Chain Guns on the midships quarterdeck.

So about 1 weapon for every 3 crewmen, plus crew served weapons. So ~2000 arms on a 6000 man SD (without Marine complement) is an acceptable ratio from modern practice.

Thanks for deciphering the gibberish from my phone - I'd like to say that is not what was on my screen before submitted it.

Yeah, it was a bit much to decipher. But the weapons total was a bit off. I forget we also had shotguns. Talked to a friend who also served he said it was roughly 25 M1911 and 25 shotguns. He also said ships could be issued hand grenades, smoke grenades and tear gas grenades.

Also look at Lt. Hearns brought to the party at Shona Station IIRC they had a AT missile launcher and improvised breaching charges.

Weird Harold wrote:

svenhauke wrote:1. solarian sd are more powerfull then solarian BC,

A possibly flawed assumption. SDs are Battle Fleet ships and a design frozen a couple of centuries ago; in any Haven SEctor navy they'd be considered DNs instead of SDs.

SLN BCs are primarily the province of Frontier Fleet and their newest is a design that is only decades old that compares favorably with first-war Haven Sector BCs.

It wouldn't surprise me if Frontier Fleet BCs didn't compare favorably with Battle Fleet Scientist-class SDs. Singleton SDs definitely wouldn't compare favorably with a division or squadron of BCs -- and probably wouldn't survive much longer than a singleton, second-hand BC or two.

There is no way that a BC, no matter how well designed, is the equal of a DN (considering the Scientist and Vega class SDs as DNs), given equal range of weapons mounted. That last is critical--all of the SLNs units, from the latest, most up to date designs to the oldest, out of date, not modernized and orbiting in mothballs--all of them--are restricted to single drive missiles.

And we say how BCs, even with the advantage of conducting an ambush from stealth with single drive missile pods, fared against DNs in A Short Victorious War.

Vince wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:[

A possibly flawed assumption. SDs are Battle Fleet ships and a design frozen a couple of centuries ago; in any Haven SEctor navy they'd be considered DNs instead of SDs.

SLN BCs are primarily the province of Frontier Fleet and their newest is a design that is only decades old that compares favorably with first-war Haven Sector BCs.

It wouldn't surprise me if Frontier Fleet BCs didn't compare favorably with Battle Fleet Scientist-class SDs. Singleton SDs definitely wouldn't compare favorably with a division or squadron of BCs -- and probably wouldn't survive much longer than a singleton, second-hand BC or two.

There is no way that a BC, no matter how well designed, is the equal of a DN (considering the Scientist and Vega class SDs as DNs), given equal range of weapons mounted. That last is critical--all of the SLNs units, from the latest, most up to date designs to the oldest, out of date, not modernized and orbiting in mothballs--all of them--are restricted to single drive missiles.

And we say how BCs, even with the advantage of conducting an ambush from stealth with single drive missile pods, fared against DNs in A Short Victorious War.

We also know that SLN BC's still mount lots of cruiser weight beams, comparatively speaking to the fewer but heavier SD mounts of a Haven Sector BC.

Without those SD grasers, no BC can even consider fighting a DN, let alone an SD. With them, the battle would change from totally futile to suicidal but doable.

Vince wrote:And we say[sic] how BCs, even with the advantage of conducting an ambush from stealth with single drive missile pods, fared against DNs in A Short Victorious War.

Dolist PRN crews expecting their target to be minutes away encountered RMN Bellerophon. The fate of the PRN BCs had more to do with their level of competence than with any hardware superiority. They dropped out of Hyper within energy range of HMS Bellerophon into a situation vastly different than they were prepared for.

A raiding task force would have no reason to get within energy range of an obsolete Scientist-class. The FF BCs have better ECM, and fire the same missiles as a Scientist-class. They would have more experienced crews than a Battle Fleet SD, (the proposed "defender" would generally have even less experience than a BF crew,) and their ship would probably be in much better shape maintenance-wise.

If you want a textev comparison, the battle would be more akin to Honor's fight against Thunder of God than Bellerophon's casual destruction of the PRN task force.

A squadron of BCs with SDMs can beat a single SD per David. There just won't be much of a squadron left. And you don't need to stop everyone, you just have to be less appealing than other targets.

Edit: Oops, kzt basically beat me to this

Vince wrote:And we say how BCs, even with the advantage of conducting an ambush from stealth with single drive missile pods, fared against DNs in A Short Victorious War.

True, on a more or less even hull count basis SDs are going to win against BC.

But I believe RFC has said, on an equal tonnage basis, a BC squadron would win more often then not against against a solo SD. The BC's would get torn up, but together they provide too many angles to attack the SD from. They can either form a single wall against it, or split into two smaller groups and force the SD to accept sub-optimal courses and attitude to keep maneuvering to prevent either group from achieving a crossing the T position.

If you can only have 8 mtons of ships you're better off with 8-9 BCs than 1 SD. But if you can only have 1 ship you're better off with the SD.

Weird Harold wrote:

Vince wrote:And we say[sic] how BCs, even with the advantage of conducting an ambush from stealth with single drive missile pods, fared against DNs in A Short Victorious War.

Dolist PRN crews expecting their target to be minutes away encountered RMN Bellerophon. The fate of the PRN BCs had more to do with their level of competence than with any hardware superiority. They dropped out of Hyper within energy range of HMS Bellerophon into a situation vastly different than they were prepared for.

I'm pretty sure Vince was talking about the ambush Honor and Sarnow's BCs pulled off against the Peep DNs at Hancock. The Peep BCs that stumbled across Bellerophon didn't have any pods.

Jonathan_S wrote:The Peep BCs that stumbled across Bellerophon didn't have any pods.

It wouldn't have helped. Missiles would be crawling when the point defenses opened up.